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coolgod

coolgod

Brigadier
Registered Member
taxiya said:
This is the list of agreements made during the visit,
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, there is only 中法关于中东局势的联合声明 that is related to international conflict (middle east). Whatever AFP or this website claim that Xi said is NOT what China acknowledges. In diplomacy only signed papers have values.

I am sure Macron has tried to make the Russo-Ukrainian war into the joint declaration but Xi rejected the idea (otherwise no joint declaration). So instead of "backing" as AFP tried to present, the reality is "rejection". It is another example of dressing up a failure as success.
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https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1787568206036541544

Xi mentions his support behind the ceasefire during Paris Olympics at 6:47. Hard to say how much weight to put in Xi's words, but I think there is merit in the argument that if China aids in accomplishing a ceasefire, China has more legitimacy on the world stage.
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
taxiya said:
I am sure Macron has tried to make the Russo-Ukrainian war into the joint declaration but Xi rejected the idea (otherwise no joint declaration). So instead of "backing" as AFP tried to present, the reality is "rejection". It is another example of dressing up a failure as success.
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Why exactly should Russia do this when the French aren't even letting Russia send its delegation to compete in the Olympic games? These guys are total morons.
 
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Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member
coolgod said:
Hard to say how much weight to put in Xi's words, but I think there is merit in the argument that if China aids in accomplishing a ceasefire, China has more legitimacy on the world stage.
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Legitimacy and perception are way lower on the list of desirable outcomes, for China, than the US empire simply continuing to bleed out in the Ukraine. Strategically, Xi would like this war to last 10 more years at least. Sadly, but that's realpolitik. Also, Russia would prefer if it continued since basically, they are winning in the long run. Also, to add, there were already at least 5 peace initiatives like this since the war started, and they begged China 50 times, and it didn't pan out. I see literally no chance it happens this time either.
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Serb said:
Legitimacy and perception are way lower on the list of desirable outcomes, for China, than the US empire simply continuing to bleed out in the Ukraine. Strategically, Xi would like this war to last 10 more years at least. Sadly, but that's realpolitik. Also, Russia would prefer if it continued since basically, they are winning in the long run. Also, to add, there were already at least 5 peace initiatives like this since the war started, and they begged China 50 times, and it didn't pan out. I see literally no chance it happens this time either.
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I disagree on China wanting to see the Ukraine War continue.
If it stopped today, Russia and the West would still be estranged for another decade at least.
And it's not really in China's interest for Russia-European relations to get really bad, because it will drag China in.

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What does victory look like for Russia?

It's not realistic for Russia to cross the Dnipro River, so there has to be a negotiated settlement anyway.

Now, if Russia were to take all of Donbass and Luhansk, then they could declare "victory".
I don't think China thinks it is worth the cost, but the Russians do.

So neither Ukraine or Russia are ready for a peace agreement yet.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
coolgod said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1787568206036541544

Xi mentions his support behind the ceasefire during Paris Olympics at 6:47. Hard to say how much weight to put in Xi's words, but I think there is merit in the argument that if China aids in accomplishing a ceasefire, China has more legitimacy on the world stage.
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Xi called general global ceasefire immediately followed by calling Gaza ceasefire. His speech precisly matches the official joint declarition.

Olympic ceasefire is a tradition, so calling that out in Paris is a courtesy at least. By not being spelled out, Russo-Ukrainian conflict carries no more weight than any other ongoing conflict such as US in Syria or Houti in red sea. AFP inserting Russo-Ukrainian conflict in Xi's speech is a bluntant lie.

When the west and Ukraine aren't ready to backdown, ceasefire isn't something China want, there is no legitimacy agreeable between two fighing camps. China and the west are in fight with the west, just not openly, everybody knows that.
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
AndrewS said:
What does victory look like for Russia?
It's not realistic for Russia to cross the Dnipro River, so there has to be a negotiated settlement anyway.
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That is not a goal for the SMO. The goals were to ensure the safety on the Donbass citizens, make Ukraine a neutral country, and de-nazify Ukraine. But if it is necessary to go to the right side of the Dnipro then it can be done. The Russians would just need to invade Ukraine north-south from Belarus.

AndrewS said:
Now, if Russia were to take all of Donbass and Luhansk, then they could declare "victory".
I don't think China thinks it is worth the cost, but the Russians do.
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I will not stop at that. Not while Ukraine still insists on NATO membership and does not get rid of its heavy weapons.
 
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