Miscellaneous News

doggydogdo said:

Then why is it far cheaper than Chinese J-20s despite China holding an edge over Russia in every single way?

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Russian manufacturers has depreciated R&D assets that were paid off during the Cold War era for things every plane needs like controls, life support, landing gears, engines, etc.

J-20 unit costs include not only the marginal cost of the airframe but the amortized cost of R&D for everything including the specialized WS-10C and WS-15 engines.

You can also see with your eyes that the J-20 has tighter machining tolerances with composite while the Su-57 has sloppier tolerances with metal. This will squeeze the last little bit of performance out but is vastly more expensive, not only for tools but if you have a bad piece of composite it can't be reworked like metal, it's junk. So you have to be able to tolerate junking alot of almost good parts.

The last little bit of performance is actually the most important once you are already very good. Going from 95% good to 99% good is just 4% improvement but the probability of failure declined by 5x.

ZachL111 said:

Easy to see why. When both sides of the aisle push the most anti-Chinese propaganda possible, both sides become hateful towards the PRC. A lot of fellow Americans I see around me seem to have lost the ability to think rationally on this issue specifically. Some of the most anti-war Americans I have met still believe everything the US government says on China. It's amazing and a bit worrying to see. Great share though.

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I think war is inevitable. It is not because 40% American hate China. There are plenty of case of one country hate one another, but as long both work it out, things get better. US is different. Their hate is just a symptom. The underlying cause is their irrationality. There is no negotiating with an irrational entity. US is benefiting immensely from its relation with China, yet it hate it. US is willing to go against their own long term interest just to mildly inconvenient China. Perhaps today China is too strong to fight, but there is no forever. It is possible between today to 100 years later China will again have a moment of weakness, then America will strike. In that case, why shouldn't China solve American problem while it has the upper hand? Like a chihuahua with rabies, you can fight it off, but you will never be able to sleep next to it. The only way to sleep is to make it 'go away' one way or another. For this to happen, war is needed one way or another. Even under the best case when no direct shooting between the two, US just self collapse, it would still result in a civil war. A civil war involving nuclear arsenal is not something China can sit idly for. In the end, it is still involving both shooting each other in best case.

doggydogdo said:

24 million for a 5th gen seems unlike. Su-57 is probably 4+ gen

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The price difference between a whole new build 4th gen and 5th gen in the West is not that significant. It might be half the price. Not a fifth.

The only thing you can take a real issue with the current Su-57 is the AL-41 engines. These are basically 4th generation+ engines on the level of those in the Super Hornet. That is supposed to be fixed with the AL-51 engine when the Su-57M comes out.

FairAndUnbiased said:

Russian manufacturers has depreciated R&D assets that were paid off during the Cold War era for things every plane needs like controls, life support, landing gears, engines, etc.

J-20 unit costs include not only the marginal cost of the airframe but the amortized cost of R&D for everything including the specialized WS-10C and WS-15 engines.

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I do not think either Russia or China take into account anything but the marginal per unit costs. R&D and cost to build fixed assets are not part of the unit price.

FairAndUnbiased said:

You can also see with your eyes that the J-20 has tighter machining tolerances with composite while the Su-57 has sloppier tolerances with metal. This will squeeze the last little bit of performance out but is vastly more expensive, not only for tools but if you have a bad piece of composite it can't be reworked like metal, it's junk. So you have to be able to tolerate junking alot of almost good parts.

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There might be some of that. Looser tolerances. But there are also likely other factors at play here. The price of the Su-57 is artificially low because of the devaluation of the ruble, let us say we'll assume the ruble was worth twice as much as it is right now, and the unit price would be $59 million USD. The rest of the price difference could be accounted by other factors. For example the Al-41 has been in production for longer and might be more efficient to produce. And we know that Russia uses vacuum infused carbon composites, rather than curing them inside an autoclave. That could also make a difference.

FairAndUnbiased said:

Russian manufacturers has depreciated R&D assets that were paid off during the Cold War era for things every plane needs like controls, life support, landing gears, engines, etc.

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I doubt anything from cold war remaining. This Su-57 engine makes special sound which Su-35 engine does not.
I just pulled this from flight radar. you can see the speed is 900km/hr. it can sustain even higher speeds for 5 to 6 hours flights. this is the edge in speed they were looking down there in Desert apart from everything else they interested. you wont find this in specifications. but this does not tell anything about quality and maintainability of product over much longer period of time repeatedly exposed to much higher heat levels. the point i am making is this kind of products cannot be built with Cold war equipment and thinking.

pmc said:

I doubt anything from cold war remaining. This Su-57 engine makes special sound which Su-35 engine does not.
I just pulled this from flight radar. you can see the speed is 900km/hr. it can sustain even higher speeds for 5 to 6 hours flights. this is the edge in speed they were looking down there in Desert apart from everything else they interested. you wont find this in specifications. but this does not tell anything about quality and maintainability of product over much longer period of time repeatedly exposed to much higher heat levels. the point i am making is this kind of products cannot be built with Cold war equipment and thinking.

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900km/h is less than the speed of commercial planes while cruising. These numbers are not impressive.

doggydogdo said:

900km/h is less than the speed of commercial planes while cruising. These numbers are not impressive.

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this is a Narrow body 100 Pax not a Wide body Airliner. This Airbus A320 is too slow for its size. look it up A320 see how many you can find at 900km/hr.

pmc said:

this is a Narrow body 100 Pax not a Wide body Airliner. This Airbus A320 is too slow for its size. look it up A320 see how many you can find at 900km/hr.

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Yeah, those numbers are not impressive.

Also, you know 900km/h is less than Mach 1 right?

pmc said:

this is a Narrow body 100 Pax not a Wide body Airliner. This Airbus A320 is too slow for its size. look it up A320 see how many you can find at 900km/hr.

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Ground speed does not mean anything, if you have a strong tailwind any jet can easily fly at 1100-1200km/h.

What is important when it comes to structural strenght is the air speed.

Jamie28 said:

Ground speed does not mean anything, if you have a strong tailwind any jet can easily fly at 1100-1200km/h.

What is important when it comes to structural strenght is the air speed.

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I know all those things. SSJ that takes routes is not slower than larger aircraft between two destinations ( you can include climb rates to cruising speed in performance characteristics). the point i am making is the aircraft is neither overpowered nor use light weight composites and its widest in its class. you can see the cruising speed 950 km/hr. when these things shows up in Desert people do comment in Arabic and some of those are really experience in this Aviation. If this thing is given to a Gulf Airlines they will perform it much higher speeds than money saving Russian airlines.

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Flight range:
4420 km
Cruising speed:
950 km/h

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Such is the democratic vibrancy and changing of policies: the political parties will pass a new bill that makes anti-Zionist equal to antisemitism.

ACLU Condemns House Passage of Dangerous Bill That Would Chill Free Speech​

This Bill Would Falsely Equate Criticism of Israel with Antisemitic Discrimination

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Solomon Islands just elected another pro-China president.