Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is Missing

shen

Senior Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

I'm not the only one who thinks US spy satellite may have picked up the pings.

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let's hope the P-8 crew is getting some hints on where to look.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

I'm impressed by the scale of the scale of the chinese naval operation.

Coordinating a combined group of naval vessels (including two 071s) and law enforcement boats that is about 8 strong, across this many miles of ocean, all with heavy satellite support and even PLAAF involvement is no small feat and not something they could've done so briskly fifteen or even ten years ago.

In the worst case scenario even if nothing is found in the end, I think china can still be commended this time around if not by others, but at least its own citizens, for doing all it can to search for this airline.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

I think you are completely missing the point I made. I pointed out that this situation proves that China has a need that is best served by a LHD, because a LHD has the space, the mission flexibility (better than a carrier), the higher number of air and naval assets all on one vessel (better than a LPD) than any other ship type. This is an objective analysis, not a dig.

China alarmists have nothing to go on, and instead can be discredited based on facts highlighted by this event, because not only is China working with other countries (some of whom China has territorial disputes with) and following their lead in their jurisdictions as it should, it is also sharing in the burden of the search by deploying the best assets it can, yet all of which shows China's limitations in diplomacy (military to military relationships), surveillance, and actual reach on the ground/sea/air.

P.S. just a note that if you've read my posts in these forums over the years I have been a long time believer in China needing LHDs (even as a higher priority than carriers) especially for MOOTW, so this is a chance to bolster my case!

I wasn't labeling you a China alarmist for you to "dig." I don't know where you got the idea I was accusing you of making a dig. I was pointing to the fact China's ability to handle these types of situations translates into military capabilities which plays into geo-politics which Beijing obviously keeps in mind. China avoids military alliances so all their assets will be in China. So if the US and Australia are experiencing limitations on their search that's off Australia, what can China do more?

Piracy missions in the Indian Ocean... China was helping there but it raised alarm bells that China was gaining long range naval capabilities. After it was pointed out China lack capability for disaster relief after the tsunami, those very people pointing the finger were alarmed when China started building those capabilities which in turn translates to naval capabilities.

China wants to be an international player but these types of situations shows China's lack of capability and initiative. For all we know the South Indian Ocean search is a wild goose chase. And China is there following along because it doesn't have what it takes to conduct an independent investigation. So it takes its queues from others. What this incident calls for is an independent party to handle the situation. Like I've mentioned before... where is all this information that everyone follows coming from? It sounds like mostly from the US but then recently the Malaysians were accused of hampering the search because it didn't release all this information about the pings. How does the New York Times know as they reported what was exactly going on in the cockpit as to charge the flight path was programmed in? I thought all the systems that would give that type of information were turned off. So where's all this information coming from?

If China is just following along with what others do, having more LHDs or whatever won't do anything more or better.
 
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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Regardless of how others want to respond to chinese naval capabilities, I think this saga without a doubt has shown Beijing that its investment in a more capable navy was the right decision and will continue to be the right decision.


I read somewhere that an 052C, 071 and AOR ship will now be moving to the Southern Indian Ocean along with a half dozen chinese maritime law enforcement ships, and even xue long too. This is shaping up to be quite the operation and test for the PLAN, it involves long range maneuvers, a test of replenishment and endurance, as well as coordination of multi service assets. And of course, this was not a pre planned training exercise either, showing these PLAN ships were at a state of readiness. The PLAN response to MH370 will probably be a highlight of the PLAs developing capability in 2014
 

shen

Senior Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

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Australian finding ‘credible’: Malaysia
PUBLISHED: 20 Mar 2014 13:43:00 | UPDATED: 21 Mar 2014 04:40:31
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John Kerin and Joanna Heath
KEY POINTS

Debris that looks like it could be airplane wreckage has been spotted in the Indian Ocean
It is not certain if it is the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370
Satellites are being used to investigate the area more thoroughly.
Planes have surveyed the area and ships are being sent there also.
Tony Abbott said the task of finding the debris will be “extremely difficult”.
Chinese relatives of missing MH370 passengers stormed a Malay media conference today demanding more information about the missing plane.

It could be two or three days before anything definitive comes from an exhaustive search for possible debris from Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 in waters off Australia’s south-west coast.

The development came as Malaysia last night described the sighting of two objects of the Western Australian coast as a “credible lead’’ though Acting Transport Minister Hishamuddin Hussein stressed it would need to be verified.

The search for the missing plane entered its 13th day on Thursday and efforts were redirected to a location some 2500 kilometres south-west of Perth after Australia said that two objects – one estimated at 24-metres long – had been spotted by commercial satellite in the southern Indian Ocean.

Military aircraft and merchant ships are racing to a position in the southern Indian Ocean about 2500 kilometres south-west of Perth, where a satellite identified two floating objects.

However, the first plane to return from the area reported finding nothing.

Meanwhile, a Norwegian ship has now reached the area, shipping company Hoeeg Autoliners says.

“The ship has arrived at the site to take part in the search,” said Cecilie Moe, spokeswoman for the Norwegian company on Thursday evening.

According to another Hooeg Autoliners spokesperson, Christian Dahll, the remaining search window for the day was limited due to fading light.

The “St. Petersburg” vessel, a vehicles carrier, was on its way from Port Louis in Mauritius to Melbourne, when requested by Australian authorities to reroute in order to help with the search.

RAAF P3 crew unable to locate debris. Cloud & rain limited visbility. Further aircraft to continue search for #MH370
— AMSA News (@AMSA_News) March 20, 2014

On Thursday night, Mr Hishammuddin said Prime Minister Najib Razak received a call from his Australian counterpart Tony Abbott on Thursday morning confirming the Australian search.

He added that the latest sightings, while credible, were yet to be verified.

“Today, at least there is a credible lead . . . that gives us hope. As long as there is hope, we will continue,” Mr Hishammuddin said.

Mr Hishamuddin said investigators had also not discounted the theory of “sudden decompression’’ which meant the plane could have flown for thousands of kilometres before ditching in to the sea.

Malaysia's acting Transport Minister Hishamuddin Hussein shows maps of northern search corridor during a press conference on Thursday night.

Photo: AP

In sudden decompression a fuselage breach results in oxygen levels to drop to fatal levels for everyone on board the plane.

Defence Minister David Johnston says Australia’s defence forces are doing everything they can in one of the most remote locations in the world.

Unfavourable weather may hinder the search with conditions described as moderate and visibility as poor, which will affect air and satellite searches.
US Navy reject radar findings

The US Navy rejected an eyewitness report on Thursday from a flight crew scouring the southern Indian Ocean for the missing Malaysia Airlines plane. They told US ABC News that they’re getting radar hits of “significant size,” indicating something lurking below the water’s surface.

But US Commander William Marks of the US Navy’s 7th Fleet later said the radar return was typical and not connected to the missing plane.

Earlier, the Australian Maritime Safety Authority confirmed a potential sighting of two objects in the southern Indian ocean that could be related to missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

The debris-like flotsam was spotted by a commercial satellite on March 16.

It is still too early to tell if the images are of pieces of the missing plane, which was carrying 239 people when it disappeared on March 8.

Commercial satellites have been redirected to the area to provide greater clarity and detail. The initial imagery has been assessed by the Australian Geospatial Intelligence Organisation, AMSA says, and is being treated as credible.

AMSA emergency response general manager John Young said the objects were indistinct, but one was 24 metres long and other smaller ones.

Four aircraft have been retasked to the area 2500km west of Perth: A Royal Australian Airforce Orion, which completed its sweep around 4pmEST on Thursday, a US Navy P8 aircraft which completed its sweep around 5pm, while a second Orion was expected and a NZ Air Force Orion were expected to complete their sweeps before midnight.

A merchant ship is also being redirected to the area and arrived around 6pm Thursday night, and HMAS Success is en route but Mr Young cautioned there is poor visibility.

Though the debris-like pieces have been spotted by satellite they have not yet been located by the search aircraft.

“It’s probably the best lead we have right now, AMSA emergency response division manager John Young said at a press conference in Canberra.

“But we have to get there, find them, see them, assess them, to know whether it’s really meaningful or not,” he said.

.“AMSA continues to hold grave concerns for the passengers and crew on board and I must empherasise that these objects may be very difficult to locate and they may not be related to the search,” he said.

“AMSA is doing its level best to find anyone that might have survived,” he said when asked what advice he had for families of those on the missing flight.

Ahead of question time, Prime Minister Tony Abbott said the government was dispatching Orion surveillance aircraft to investigate further and that the objects would be difficult to find and might not be related to the missing aircraft.

“I would like to inform the House that new and credible information has come to light in relation to the search for Malaysia airlines flight MH370 in the southern Indian Ocean,’’ Mr Abbott told parliament.

“The Australian Maritime Safety Authority has received information based on satellite imagery of objects possibly related to the search. Following specialist analysis of this satellite imagery, two possible objects related to the search have been identified.

“I have spoken to my Malaysian counterpart, the Prime Minister Najib Razak, and informed him of these developments. I should tell the House – and we must keep this in mind – the task of locating these objects will be extremely difficult and it may turn out that they are not related to the search for flight MH370.

“Nevertheless, I did want to update the House on this potentially important development.”

China’s foreign ministry said it hopes Australia can send ships and aircraft as soon as possible to investigate the two objects spotted by satellite floating in the southern Indian Ocean that may be from a missing Malaysian plane, the New Straits Times reported.

China has told its embassy in Australia to stay in close touch with the Australian government and help in search efforts, the foreign ministry said in a statement.

China has also offered Australia search aircraft to assist the search.

The basic dimensions of the Boeing 777-200ER which was used on Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, according to Boeing’s website has a wingspan of 60.9 metres a length of 63.7 metres and a fuselage diameter of 6.19 metres which implies each wing is around 27 metres long.
Information sharing

Meanwhile Australian defence sources have refuted suggestions the US and Australia are not sharing intelligence with Kuala Lumpur over the airliners disappearance.

Malaysia said on Wednesday that it had asked the US to release satellite data gathered by the top secret Pine Gap complex, saying it may help the search for the missing aircraft.

A senior Australian defence source did not want to comment on the role of the top secret facility on Thursday, but described as “stupid’’ the notion Australia would be withholding valuable information on the search for the missing aircraft when 239 lives were at stake.

Australian Strategic Policy Institute capability analyst Andrew Davies said because intelligence was shared on a “need-to-know basis’’, there was no reason for the Americans to tell Malaysia it was coming from Pine Gap.

Dr Davies said: “Why would Pine Gap be singled out over any other ground station the US operates or jointly operates with other countries around the world as a source if it doesn’t need to be?

“Given we are talking about 239 lives... it’s plausible satellite data from Pine Gap has been looked at to provide an overall picture without saying where the data came from.

“If it was too sensitive to reveal where it came from, intelligence agencies can usually find a way to fudge its origin.”


Australia has dispatched Orion surveillance aircraft to search for objects identified in satellite imagery.

Photo: Reuters

Australia’s foremost analyst on the Pine Gap facility, professor Des Ball of the Australian National University Strategic and Defence Studies Centre, said it was unlikely the satellite tracking station at Pine Gap itself played any role in spotting the missing Boeing 777.
Malaysia ‘trying to shift the blame’

“Pine Gap’s role is to control satellites at 35,000 kilometres up, which are looking for microwave signals from a missile launch and tracking the missile once it is launched,” Professor Ball said.

“It is largely focused on places like North Korea. But there is a little building next the main facility at Pine Gap operated by the air force which is equipped with an infrared early warning detection system. This might pick up the intense burst of heat... the flash, if an aircraft exploded into fire.”

Former military intelligence officer and Australia Defence Association executive director Neil James suggested Malaysia was “trying to shift the blame over its handling of the investigation on to Australia and the US’’.

The Pine Gap complex has also been previously reported to have played a key role in the US’s controversial drone strike program involving the “targeted killing’’ of al-Qaeda and Taliban chiefs by tracking their mobile phone and other electronic signals.

But the Australian Defence Department has declined to comment on the role of Pine Gap.

In a statement on Thursday, Defence said “it will not comment on the operational capability of surveillance systems’’.

But the statement insisted “as part of the international search effort for the missing Malaysian Airlines aircraft, any Defence information relating to flight MH370 is passed to Malaysian authorities’’.

Twelve days after the disappearance of flight 370, multinational efforts have failed to find any trace of the plane and the 239 people on board, including 153 Chinese.

The investigation has focused on the possibility that the plane was deliberately diverted from its flight path, but the drip feed of often-conflicting information has sparked fury among desperate relatives and condemnation from Chinese authorities.

‘Emotions are high’

Investigators are trying to restore files deleted last month from the home flight simulator of the pilot aboard the missing Malaysian plane to see if they shed any light on the disappearance, Malaysia’s defence minister said.

Hishammuddin told an earlier news conference that the pilot, Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, was considered innocent until proven guilty of any wrongdoing, and that members of his family were co-operating in the investigation. Files containing records of simulations carried out on the program were deleted on February 3, Malaysian police chief Khalid Abu said.

Deleting files would not necessarily represent anything unusual, especially if it were to free up memory space, but investigators would want to check the files for any signs of unusual flight paths that could help explain where the missing plane went.

The plane disappeared on March 8 on a night flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. Malaysian authorities have not ruled out any possible explanations, but have said the evidence so far suggests the flight was deliberately turned back across Malaysia to the Strait of Malacca. They are unsure what happened next.
‘I don’t know why it is taking so long’

Investigators have identified two giant arcs of territory spanning the possible positions of the plane about seven hours after takeoff, based on its last faint signal to a satellite. The arcs stretch up as far as Kazakhstan in central Asia and down deep into the southern Indian Ocean.

Police are considering the possibility of hijacking, sabotage, terrorism or issues related to the mental health of the pilots or anyone else on board, and have asked for background checks from abroad on all foreign passengers.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

In this situation if the US had detected the pinging, She would have released it.
23 March 2014 Last updated at 12:13 ET
Malaysia flight MH370: New data 'shows possible debris'
New data from a French satellite shows potential debris from Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 in the southern Indian Ocean, France's foreign ministry says.
Radar echoes had picked up several objects about 2,300km (1,430 miles) from Perth, a statement added.
It is the third possible sighting in the area off western Australia that has become the focus of the search effort.
Flight MH370 disappeared on 8 March while en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, with 239 people on board.
Malaysian officials believe the plane was deliberately taken off course.
Based on information received from a satellite, the search has been in two distinct corridors - one stretching to the north-west of the last known location in the Malacca Straits and one to the south-west.
However, none of the countries on the northern corridor have reported any radar contact, and the satellite images of possible debris in the south Indian Ocean have concentrated the search there.
'No sightings'
On Sunday, a statement published on the Malaysian ministry of transport's Facebook page said: "This morning, Malaysia received new satellite images from the French authorities showing potential objects in the vicinity of the southern corridor.
"Malaysia immediately relayed these images to the Australian rescue co-ordination centre."
An unnamed Malaysian official told the Associated Press that the new satellite image was taken on Friday, and that one of the potential objects was estimated to be about the same size as one spotted by a Chinese satellite that appeared to be 22m (72ft) by 13m (43ft).
The possible debris was located about 930km (575 miles) north of where the objects reported by China and Australia over the past week, the official added.
A French foreign ministry statement said the objects were about 2,300km from Perth, but did not give a direction or say when the discovery was made.
It also clarified that the French authorities had passed on data in the form of "satellite-generated radar echoes" rather than images. Radar works by sending out radio waves or microwaves and listening for echoes that bounce back.
"France has decided to mobilise complementary satellite means to continue the search in the identified zone," the ministry statement added.
The Australian Maritime Safety Authority (Amsa) subsequently announced that that the search operation in the southern Indian Ocean had concluded for the day.
"There were no sightings of significance," a statement said. "The search area experienced early sea fog particularly in the western areas, however conditions improved during the day."
Amsa said the four military and four civilian aircraft involved in Sunday's search effort had covered a total of 59,000 sq km (22, 780 sq miles) south-west of Perth. Chinese military Ilyushin IL-76 aircraft and Japanese P-3C Orion aircraft would join the search on Monday, it added.
HMAS Success, an Australian navy supply ship, also took part in Sunday's operation.
A key focus on Sunday was the sighting on Saturday of a wooden cargo pallet, along with belts or straps.
Mike Barton, operations co-ordinator at Amsa, said: "Part of the description was a wooden pallet and a number of other items which were nondescript around it and some belts of some different colours around it as well, strapping belts of different lengths."
He added: "We tried to re-find that yesterday, one of the New Zealand aircraft, and unfortunately they didn't find it. That's the nature of it - you only have to be off by a few hundred metres in a fast-travelling aircraft."
Pallets are used for shipping as well as plane cargo and Mr Barton urged caution, saying the sighting "could be anything".
'I miss my son'
Earlier, Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said the sightings of objects were encouraging signs.
"Obviously we have now had a number of very credible leads and there is increasing hope - no more than hope, no more than hope - that we might be on the road to discovering what did happen to this ill-fated aircraft," he said.
On Saturday, China released a satellite image showing an object floating in the southern Indian Ocean near to the area already being searched, some 2,500 km (1,550 miles) south-west of Perth.
The grainy image was released by China's State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense.
The Xinhua state news agency said the image was taken at about 04:00 GMT on 18 March and showed objects about 120km "south by west" from the site of possible debris shown in another satellite image from 16 March.
Malaysian Defence Minister Hishammuddin Hussein put a message on his Twitter account on Sunday urging a "prayer please" for the passengers and crew on flight MH370.
Relatives and friends are still waiting anxiously for news in hotels in Beijing and Malaysia.
In the Everly Hotel in Putrajaya, Malaysia, Kamariah Sharif, the mother of missing passenger Mohamad Razahan Zamani, told Reuters: "Allah give me strength and guidance, I can't tell you how much I miss my son. This has gone on so long. I pray that he is safe."
In Beijing, Wang Zheng, whose father and mother were on the plane, told Associated Press: "I can't eat, I can't sleep. I've been dreaming of my parents every day."
 

delft

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

I just heard an item in BBC Radio 4 news program saying that the Chinese navy isn't as strong as China says it is. They apparently didn't notice that the US and its friends talk about the threatening growth of PLAN, not China.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

China never boasted the strength of its navy. The West are too paranoid. China does not even have the full complement of ships needed for the SAR.
 
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