Littoral Combat Ships (LCS)

J

joshuatree

Captain
Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

bd popeye said:
I like the General Dynamics design for the reasons you stated. The hull looks easier to maintain. Operationally both ships have close to the same ablity. The test will be when the USN shakes down these ships.
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Interesting comment, how do you see the GD hull as easier to maintain? I personally think the GD design will win because it seems to have a shallower draft which would tackle the main role of this class of ships better than the Lockheed design, serving in littoral areas.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

joshuatree said:
Interesting comment, how do you see the GD hull as easier to maintain? I personally think the GD design will win because it seems to have a shallower draft which would tackle the main role of this class of ships better than the Lockheed design, serving in littoral areas.
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Actually, and FYI, the specs of the two vessels show that the GD Trimaran has a deeper draft than the Lockheed semi-planing hull design. The GD design's draft will be at around 17ft, while the Lockheed design is at 13 ft. Probably more surface area on the bottom of that Lockheed hull to spread the weight in the water.
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

Interesting comment, how do you see the GD hull as easier to maintain?
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The hull on the GD design while not traditional like the LM offers the USN future insight to new hull designs.

I'm no naval engineer just and old sailor!..BUT>>> I see the trimaran as more corrosin resistan simply because it will not have as much contact with the ocean forces at speed because of it's design.. The trimaran offers greater stablity than a "traditional" design therefore the equipment on board will not take as much punishment as on the LM design. Just my opinion. I could be way off base.
 
J

joshuatree

Captain
Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

Jeff Head said:
Actually, and FYI, the specs of the two vessels show that the GD Trimaran has a deeper draft than the Lockheed semi-planing hull design. The GD design's draft will be at around 17ft, while the Lockheed design is at 13 ft. Probably more surface area on the bottom of that Lockheed hull to spread the weight in the water.
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You're right, looks can be deceiving. :D
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

The Sec Navy Donald Winters today cancelled LCS 2. This is a real blow to the LCS program. Perhaps it is a message about extreme cost over runs and a warning to all defense contractors. I'm sure Lockheed-Martin got the message big time.

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Navy Terminates Littoral Combat Ship 3

Secretary of the Navy Donald C. Winter announced today that the Department of the Navy is terminating construction of the third Littoral Combat Ship (LCS 3) for convenience under the Termination clause of the contract because the Navy and Lockheed Martin could not reach agreement on the terms of a modified contract.

The Navy issued a stop-work order on construction on LCS 3 in January following a series of cost overruns on LCS 1 and projection of cost increases on LCS 3, which are being built by Lockheed Martin under a cost-plus contract. The Navy announced in March that it would consider lifting the stop-work order on LCS 3 if the Navy and Lockheed Martin could agree on the terms for a fixed price incentive agreement by mid-April. The Navy worked closely with Lockheed Martin to try to restructure the agreement for LCS-3 to more equitably balance cost and risk, but could not come to terms and conditions that were acceptable to both parties.

The Navy remains committed to completing construction on LCS 1 under the current contract with Lockheed Martin. LCS 2 and 4 are under contract with General Dynamics, and the Navy will monitor their cost performance closely. The Navy intends to continue with the plan to assess costs and capabilities of LCS 1 and LCS 2 and transition to a single seaframe configuration in fiscal year 10 after an operational assessment and considering all relevant factors. General Dynamics’ ships will continue on a cost-plus basis as long as its costs remain defined and manageable. If the cost performance becomes unacceptable, then General Dynamics will be subject to similar restructuring requirements.

“LCS continues to be a critical warfighting requirement for our Navy to maintain dominance in the littorals and strategic choke points around the world,” said Winter. “While this is a difficult decision, we recognize that active oversight and strict cost controls in the early years are necessary to ensuring we can deliver these ships to the fleet over the long term.”
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Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

bd popeye said:
The Sec Navy Donald Winters today cancelled LCS 2. This is a real blow to the LCS program. Perhaps it is a message about extreme cost over runs and a warning to all defense contractors. I'm sure Lockheed-Martin got the message big time.
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Major, major news. Did not give Lockheed too long to correct the earlier problems either. It was not too long ago that they gave them the go ahead to continue construction after the initial stop work order. Probably a whole lot more to this that we are reading.

Looking more and more like the GD design, as long as they meet the cost considerations, will probably be the LCS design. At this point, it is really seems like it is their's to lose.
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

Looking more and more like the GD design, as long as they meet the cost considerations, will probably be the LCS design. At this point, it is really seems like it is their's to lose.
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Probally all for the better. This may evn quicken the pace that the USN recieves LCS. And having to deal with a single hull will make maintance much easier.
 
S

Scratch

Captain
Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

bd popeye said:
Probally all for the better. This may evn quicken the pace that the USN recieves LCS. And having to deal with a single hull will make maintance much easier.
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On the other hand, if the USN stays serious with testing the two concepts against each other, only one LM hull available could extend the time needed to make a full assesment.
If GD keeps the cost limits, then maybe they will be in an advantage already and perhaps the navy doesn't even consider to make a full test of both designs and goes with GD from now on. That would indeed speed up the process. But the LM design wouldn't get fully evaluated.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

bd popeye said:
Probally all for the better. This may evn quicken the pace that the USN recieves LCS. And having to deal with a single hull will make maintance much easier.
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Yep...if they move forward with a single design, sooner or later it will mean quicker integration of, and better maintenacne of the LCS overall into the US Navy.

I believe the Lockheed design is a good design (so is the GD). They are coming from different directions to get the same type of capability. The Lockheed design is faster and has a more shallow draft. GD has an equal number of positive traits on its side.

I guess, over the next few years, we shall see how it goes. I know this, the USN needs that capability in the littorals, so the sooner the better IMHO.
 
J

joshuatree

Captain
Re: Construction Progress on USS Independence, LCS 2

Jeff Head said:
Yep...if they move forward with a single design, sooner or later it will mean quicker integration of, and better maintenacne of the LCS overall into the US Navy.

I believe the Lockheed design is a good design (so is the GD). They are coming from different directions to get the same type of capability. The Lockheed design is faster and has a more shallow draft. GD has an equal number of positive traits on its side.

I guess, over the next few years, we shall see how it goes. I know this, the USN needs that capability in the littorals, so the sooner the better IMHO.
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Does anyone here think the LCS will essentially replace the Perry class frigates in the USN? And some of the higher up functions of the Perrys will be covered by destroyers?
 
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