Littoral Combat Ships (LCS)

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Both versions were designed with expansion points, parts of the structure designed to be replaced with other equipment sets, and in both Independence and Freedom class those expansion points were meant for VLS systems.

second as soon as the USN started buying both Astal GD and Lockheed martin developed designs for stretched versions for possible exports and block upgrades. These enlarged versions were meant for full frigate duty. And in my opinion are likely to be offered to the USN now.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
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Independence-upgrade.jpg


The above pic is the proposed GD upgraded Independence class with AEGIS. You can see the two VLS cells amidships, along the side of the deck house, forward of the hanger. There's one on each side. I believe they woudl each be 16 cell launchers.

This version shows two quad cannisters forwad of the deck house. I know that there is provisions there for anbother 16 cell Mk-41. That is what I would do, add another 16 cless there and lose the 2 quad pack SSMs. So, you could load it up with 48 Mk-41 VLS cells.

In those cells, if you included AEGIS, you could laod up anything from SM-6, to ESSM, to Tomahawks, to LRASMs.

You see two 20mm Phalanx on the deck house for CIWS. You could also put two SeaRAM launchers there..22 more AAW missiles, or perhaps one normal RAM launchers and a couple of those 30mm autocannons that the current Freedom class carriers.

Anyhow, the current Independence class is 3,000 tons full load. If you do all of the above you may push 4,500 tons and end up with a vessel armed as follows:

48 x Mk-41 Cells (SM-6, ESSM, Tomahawk, LRASM)
01 x 57mm DP naval gun
01 x RAM with 21 Cells
02 x 30mm auto cannons
02 x SeaHawk helos w/hanger
.

Okay now new question, if the USN adopted one of these two as a full FFG, would they be considered a whole new class or simply a "BlockII"?
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Okay now new question, if the USN adopted one of these two as a full FFG, would they be considered a whole new class or simply a "BlockII"?
I'd call them a new class of FFG.

However, either of those designs, with the type of AEGIS system you see on them, is going to push the price for each probably close to, or over, 3/4s of a billion dollars. Too much IMHO.

I would think a suitably modified Huntington Ingalls Legend Class sea frame outfitted for FFG duties ought to be considerably less.

I would personally look to a US version of one of the fine allied vessels we see, and then have it built in US shipyards. Ought to do the same for a class of AIP D/E conventional subs IMHO.

We shall see.

The one nice thing about either of those two is that it keeps a major set of US shipyards going right along.
 
...

I would personally look to a US version of one of the fine allied vessels we see, and then have it built in US shipyards. ...

(From the link in my previous post here, #367):

What about buying a new ship off the shelf? “There may be designs already out there,” Mabus admitted. “No. 1, I don’t think any foreign design is up to our standards. And, No. 2, I’m pretty sure that the Navy and Congress wouldn’t want to put Americans out of work doing that.”

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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Well on number two Jeff has covered, as does Congress. The US DOD will never more then sample a foreign made weapon system. By that I mean one or two prototypes might be imported but after that production runs will be American made. The only exceptions are for none combat training and evaluation.
for example leasing of A foreign SSK to practice sub hunting or evaluation of a former East German Russian made patrol ship. Flying Mig Aggressors or using Russian and European aviation assets to simulate a foe. Or using Russian and foreign made vehicles to equip Opfor. If the US liked at say Horizon class frigates, the US would build them here.
second the US actually has been buying a lot of foreign designs lately, UH72, VH71, Stryker infantry combat vehicle/ LAV25, both Independence and Freedom class, Joint High speed class ships, AT4, M777, C27J, MH67, A29, a number of UAVS, M27(HK416), M32, M249/MK46,M240, T45 Goshawk, just about the entire MRAP line, FMTV, a number of CROWS systems, the 120mm gun on the M1A tanks, Just about all currently used Mortars, 57 and 76mm naval guns, the HK M320 grenade launcher, both the M9/M9A1 and M11 sidearms, HK MP5, MK 13 mod 0, M1014 joint service shotgun Aimpoint M68, Elcan Spectre series optics, Harrier II, and more I can't think of right now All these systems are either directly manufactured in the US from foreign licensed design or built in the US based on a American modification to a foreign design.
both LCS hulls are based of foreign made Civilian ocean going fairy ships but extensively modified for military service.
so if the US wanted to use foreign its possible if they can prove up to the wants of the USN and are willing to License, but in this case I suspect the most likely option would be selection of a of a LCS derived hull.
The two would likely have a lot of commonality, most of the teething issues would have been worked out with the LCS hulls, and the Navy has experience with them.

if I were to pick one I would say the General Dynamics Multi Mission Combatant.
the specs are something like this
127.6m long
31.6m wide
4.4 m Draft
~3120 metric ton
>40 knot top speed
a range of 4500NM in a 16kt cruise
1500nm in a 36kt sprint
11,800 square feet of mission bay
11,100 square foot flight deck
110 man crew accommodations
32vls missiles MK41
1 57mm cannon
8 harpoons
2 phalanx
6 torpedo tubes

2 gas turbines
2 diesels
4 waterjets and retractable azi thrusters
4 diesel generators.

and precisions for Anti mine sonar, mounted M2 HBmg, towed sonar suites
I took those from GD own brochure.
 
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Seeing this:

1500nm in a 36kt sprint

I remember reading about the Norwegian Skjold (the fastest armed ship as far as I know) which sailed for trials to the US (in 2001?) and crossed the Atlantic real quick ... I even remember telling this to guys in a pub ... but since then I've forgotten what the time exactly was :) (I believe it was less than 70 hours) and a moment ago a google search didn't give it to me :-( Can you please help me?
Anyway, it's amazing what 275 tons of displacement can do!
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Skjold is a unique type of ship, She is a hybrid part Catimaran part LCAC. this makes her the fastest armed ship in the world. but she is also a Coastal Corvette, not anywhere near the mission needs or operations type of a Frigate. She is rated at over 60 Kt Top speed. for comparison the fastest Ship In military service I can think of is the HMCS Bras d'Or a unarmed Hydrofoil in Canadian Service she maxed out at 63Kt. but a 36Kt sprint is a very fast naval ship.
the M80 Stiletto a pentimaran maxes out at about 50kts
The Pegasus-class hydrofoils of the USN in 1970's maxed out at about 48Kt speed
It's my opinion that ships of this type would be better suited in US service, to Coastal mission like those of the Coast guard, and Special forces. particularly Pegasus which was really a good looking boat and armed perfectly for a narco intercept cutter.
 
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Skjold is a unique type of ship...

A moment ago I quit my second google search for the transatlantic crossing time of Skjold in 2001; no success, but found even more interesting stuff :)

"... the trans-Atlantic crossing record on August 09, 1992 with a 53,09 knots average speed, in 58 hours 34 minutes ..." by
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fancy designs:
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the USN LCS cost should've not exceeded 220m in 2003 (just for the hull, packages excluded, if I correctly understood:
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EDIT (in last two weeks nobody posted here :)
I just found (in a Polish naval journal) the trip of Skjold to the US began on September 6, 2001 and the average speed was 49.0 knots (the route not given, though :-( neither the arrival date)
 
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