Littoral Combat Ships (LCS)

dtulsa

Junior Member
The only problem with that is they totally screwed up they should have adopted the Stan flex sys. from Europe instead. That way it could be modified to suit the mission instead of trying to identify the mission for the ship's after their already built.

We have a not made or designed in the US phobia in our defense industry

And also isn't that what we have destroyers and cruisers to escort Cvn's for the lcs/sec would be a very poor escort for the flattops.And don't forget each carrier has at least one sub. in its group
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The only problem with that is they totally screwed up they should have adopted the Stan flex sys. from Europe instead. That way it could be modified to suit the mission instead of trying to identify the mission for the ship's after their already built.
Except that falls into the five difrent frigates for five fleets model. the Thing is The US is a panOcean navy and likes to from time to time move ships from one fleet to another. Also what happens if the mission needs change. a few years back every one was worried about the Somali Pirates but as time has gone by the threat reduced the attention there reduced the chance of profit. So the need changed the location did not. from 151 attacks in 2011it droped to single digits in 2012.
We have a not made or designed in the US phobia in our defense industry
The Berry Amendment prevents the US form buying mission critical foreign made military equipment. Any Military hardware used by the US in major roles has to be assembled in the US and or be able to be made in the US that is Law.
As to designed abroad. the Hull for the Independence Class was designed by the Australian based Austal corporation based on the work they were doing for the Benchijigua Express fast ferry used in the Canary Islands. The maker Austal opened a Us Branch Austal USA and there Mobile. Ab yard where they Assemble the Independence and JHSVs

The Freedom class is based on an the hull of a 67 meter motor yacht called the Destriero built by Fincantieri - Cantieri Navali Italiani S.p.A.

And also isn't that what we have destroyers and cruisers to escort Cvn's for the lcs/sec would be a very poor escort for the flattops.And don't forget each carrier has at least one sub. in its group
destroyers are for escort but are armed against larger surface ships. you send destroyer against a Frigate fine but In the Middle East you are dealing with small Fast Attack Craft. Using a destroyer to hunt Boghammar is like using a tank to hunt a guy on a moped with a RPG.
And A submarine would be even less effective against FACs.
We are talking about what is little more than a civilian inboard or outboards with a machine gun and rockets and Torpedoes mounted to it. Its a Runabout with a bad attitude Speed boats with teeth, a motor Torpedo boat crewed with maybe half a dozen men packing max fire power in small fast movers often speeding up to 50 Kts with weights of maybe 20-30 tons.
 

dtulsa

Junior Member
So that means we need fifty two of them seems like a smallest number of 20 and the rest purpose build frigates would be more appropriate doesn't it
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
and that's what the Navy is doing.
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First capping LCS
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Then up gunning and costomizing to the Frigate role
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And finally the Name change.
with active build for 2019
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why not a True frigate? because that would demand starting the Procurement process all over again at step 1. cost millions more and delay years.
 

Brumby

Major
The only problem with that is they totally screwed up they should have adopted the Stan flex sys. from Europe instead. That way it could be modified to suit the mission instead of trying to identify the mission for the ship's after their already built.

The US adopted the concept of modularity but obviously it had to be made in the U.S. In this respect I am not sure how it differs significantly from the European system. You may have a better answer to this.

The LCS was designed specifically to operate in the littorals against small boats, submarines and mines. It is not a boat looking for a mission as you may have suggested. The contention is that since its conception, threats have evolved and it looks to be simply too under-armed against contemporaries and hence the last of the 20 vessels will be upgraded.

And also isn't that what we have destroyers and cruisers to escort Cvn's for the lcs/sec would be a very poor escort for the flattops.And don't forget each carrier has at least one sub. in its group

ASW is a dangerous mission set and the numbers don't add up if you want to pit a $2.0 Billion Burke against a $500 million Kilo and hence you need the numbers with the LCS to supplement in a CSG or a SAG.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
So just what are these ships supposed to be frigates or amphibs. beats the he'll out of me what a cluster >>>>> REMOVED ABREVIATED LANGUAGE <<<<< if you get my drift

dttulsa, read SD rules.

Such profanity is not allowed on SD, even when abbreviated.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
And also isn't that what we have destroyers and cruisers to escort Cvn's for the lcs/sec would be a very poor escort for the flattops.
No...they would not.

They would be ideally suited for the ASW role, particularly out on the threat axis.

They will have sufficient AAW for self defense against the types of anti-air attacks that might be waged against them, but their speed and two helos would allow them to perform very well in the ASW role out and away from the inner group.

And as pickets, they would alert the inner group of any potential oncoming air attack.
 

dtulsa

Junior Member
Somehow it just doesn't add up these are supposed to be "fighting" ship's with nothing to fight with?Can you tell me what their supposed to do when matched against a PLAN frig. or destroyer for instance and costs is irrelevant compareed to lives of the people who serve on them.
 

Brumby

Major
Somehow it just doesn't add up these are supposed to be "fighting" ship's with nothing to fight with?Can you tell me what their supposed to do when matched against a PLAN frig. or destroyer for instance and costs is irrelevant compareed to lives of the people who serve on them.

The fact that the present batch of LCS are under-armed especially against a capable adversary is not disputed. I believe the scenario that you alluded is well publicized following a simulated exercise that the LCS did not perfrom well during such an engagement irrespective of how the game was simulated because it was simply out ranged. The upgraded SSC will have OTH ASM to address this capability gap. It is envisaged that the LCS will operate as part of a SAG and I suspect will probably include a Burke that can provide area AAW coverage.
 
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