Jamming, low caliber AA guns with thermal or TV sights, hitting the command center.
Lessons for China to learn from Ukraine conflict for Taiwan scenario
- Thread starter tphuang
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Yeah, by the time china can have main battle tanks and is siegeing cities already, it's just mop up duty and china can do it any number of ways. If anything it's probably easier and cheaper/more economical to just use drones and infantry and mortars with total air and sea dominance. Just starve them out at that stage. Save the tanks and helicopter for other stuff since china can just mass produce drones unlike helicopters and guided missiles and all that high tech stuff or stuff you need lots of steel and transport and fuel etc.
Of course it doesn't hurt to transport some tanks also but they would he coming after by air one at a time with the Y20's. That's probably too slow and just for mop up and to keep what you already took Incase some are still hiding in the mountains or elsewhere. But even then I don't see why cheap mass produced drones can't just do everything. China should have situational awareness of the whole island 24/7 and soon as one drone is attacked, they would know instantly. There would be nowhere to hide outside of the main cities.
To take the main cities just broadcast to the whole world live even, drop leaflets saying china is gonna level everything in few hours, and all civilians should leave. Whoever doesn't means they are enemy combatant. Then just level everything after with zero risk. It's exactly what Israel and usa does. Chins gave them chance to surrender or leave. So they can't blame anyone for civilian casualties except blame Taiwan for using human shields. That's why information war is crucial and china should be on top of this from the start to the end.
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Even then it was clear that the 8 years from 2014-2022 and deaths didn't generate the required results, even in Russia imo. If Russian building is bombed it would be fresh and even domestic opinion would be galvanized, and west would also have zero way to counter or ignore it. Russia can just do some explosion in the kremnlin even. How can the west ignore that? They can't. Western media would need to report on it and in fact they would LOVE to report on it because this is the exact shit they and western audience get off on.
It's like when there was an attack in tiananmen few years ago where the truck was on fire and some extremist were waving ETIM flags or whatever.
The west acts like Russia is some information warfare specialist and superpower but it's clesr they aren't. They dropped the ball hard on this one. Maybe they didn't expect the reactions to be as extreme as they were(swift ban, confiscate Russian dollar reserves, etc).
China can just so some false flag attack and explosion in zhongnanhai or elsewhere, blow up and a few empty shopping centers also.
If anything Israel is one of the master's at swaying and controlling public opinion. They know how to use the "Nazi" card unlike Russia. China should even show some japanese Nazi sympathisers but say they are Taiwanese and stuff. Just need to worry about public opinion in china being TOO nationalist after and calling for taiwans total destruction if they resist and don't insta surrender.
Yeah I mean false flag for china.
Even then it was clear that the 8 years from 2014-2022 and deaths didn't generate the required results, even in Russia imo. If Russian building is bombed it would be fresh and even domestic opinion would be galvanized, and west would also have zero way to counter or ignore it. Russia can just do some explosion in the kremnlin even. How can the west ignore that? They can't. Western media would need to report on it and in fact they would LOVE to report on it because this is the exact shit they and western audience get off on.
It's like when there was an attack in tiananmen few years ago where the truck was on fire and some extremist were waving ETIM flags or whatever.
The west acts like Russia is some information warfare specialist and superpower but it's clesr they aren't. They dropped the ball hard on this one. Maybe they didn't expect the reactions to be as extreme as they were(swift ban, confiscate Russian dollar reserves, etc).
China can just so some false flag attack and explosion in zhongnanhai or elsewhere, blow up and a few empty shopping centers also.
If anything Israel is one of the master's at swaying and controlling public opinion. They know how to use the "Nazi" card unlike Russia. China should even show some japanese Nazi sympathisers but say they are Taiwanese and stuff. Just need to worry about public opinion in china being TOO nationalist after and calling for taiwans total destruction if they resist and don't insta surrender.
This. We're very close to having autonomous drones of that size too, even jamming doesn't work against those. They can optically recognize enemy equipment and plunge down on them. The battlefield of the future is going to be nightmarish, just pray China is the one dishing out those nightmares and not the ones receiving it.
Yep. Cheap remote controlled, and/or autonomous when needed or when remote controlled is not possible or feasible. Ultimately you don't want to let AI be making kill decisions, that should be left to humans. But I digress.
Russia lacks the mass production capabilities to pump out mass numbers of cheap and good enough quality drones. China doesn't. Just see DJI, who handles like 80%+ of the whole worlds civilian market. In wartime china could ramp up not just dji but every other domestic company, and every electronic resource could be put into pumping out cheap loitering suicide drones (which would make up the bulk and replace tanks and helicopters, and guided munitions). I am assuming they will be like $1000US or even less, like 500. I mean it's just cheap plastic, with some small engines and some explosives on it, with some AI and chips that can be mass produced all domestically, the entire chain can be sourced and produced domestically (correct me if I'm wrong and china needs others to do even this?)
Now compare with Ukraine situation.
So seems like they are running out if not already, and Ukraine is asking for 500 stingers and javelins A DAY.
The cost of stinger missile is like $120,000(2020 prices) for one missile according to wiki.
With those small drones, stingers and javelins woklsnt even work, right? And even if they did it's not even logical or rational to use them against such small cheap targets.
Anyone know what's the current defense against such a tactic? Or there is none yet, since no country has such drones in such numbers? What about small directed emp bursts or attacks? Is that even real or doable without desteoying all your own electronics in like an urban scenario?
Ive seen weapons using nets or other stuff but thats more like for police to catch or stop one drone from stalker or something, not for mass war fighting.
Even in Ukraine, their use is outstripping production, and if anything it just seems like usa and nato are just giving Ukraine their leftovers. Not like they are opening new factories and ramping up production massively to make sure Ukraine always has enough munitions to hold back Russia.
And that's with Ukraine, who has land border with nato country Poland etc, unlike Taiwan who will be completely surrounded and fully blockaded by PLAN and PLAAF. No airdrops allowed, sorry.
How long will Taiwan be able to survive with every land target destroyed by bigger missiles, and whatever is left is monitored and kamikaze attacked by cheap loitering suicide drones? Not everyone of them needs to have a camera and more expensive equipment. Just as long as they are networked and can co ordinate in a swarm. I dunno what the ratio should be, leave that to the experts. But with china's tech capabilities and economical power and distance to Taiwan, I don't see why it can't be done. You can load up shitload of them on every PLAN boat or even Y20's dropping heaps of them like a mother ship lol. They will clear the way for next Y20's which will be airdropping paratroopers and light IFV and everything else to clear the way for the amphibious transport ships with the heavy guns. It shouldn't be that hard with the right timing and strategy. I mean china holds all the cards. This way should lose the minimal in human lives and should also be very cheap and economical since nothing will be blown up by manpads and stuff like Russia is going through. If anything I think Taiwan will surrender not long after since they will realise they have zero chance. Even then, china should still not hold back and level the cities with artillery if they don't surrender. That will be even cheaper and they can still save all those drones for future use, and deprive usa and west of seeing and studying Chinese tactics and strategy just like how china learned from usas Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia etc wars.
I see that the drone salesmen have setup a convention here to promote the sales of their drones.
But yes, if a military reunification happens, China should liberally use military drones, to assess the effectiveness and weakness, for future drone warfare doctrines and strategies. and Taiwan is good testbed and a landmark to show the world how modernized and far China's military has come.
Personally, I'm really excited for the future of drone warfare, and have seriously considered taking part in development of drones, after I'm done with college.
But yes, if a military reunification happens, China should liberally use military drones, to assess the effectiveness and weakness, for future drone warfare doctrines and strategies. and Taiwan is good testbed and a landmark to show the world how modernized and far China's military has come.
Personally, I'm really excited for the future of drone warfare, and have seriously considered taking part in development of drones, after I'm done with college.
Currently there isn't any autonomous killer drones yet (to the public at least), so the best way to deal with them is to jam them, which is not difficult at all, there're hand held drone gun which are just directional jammers. More powerful jammer could probably take out a whole swarm of them.
But once killer drones became autonomous that's when the horror begins. I guess maybe laser might be viable? But then drone swarm could be in the hundreds or thousands, lasers still have limitation in firing rate and can be overwhelmed.
Autonomous killer drones isn't even that difficult to program, I'd say any companies out there capable of developing self driving cars is capable of making autonomous killer drones. The machine vision problem has already been solved.
The other problem with small drones is limited range, typical DJI drones can't go further than a few kilometers with current battery tech. Military small drones can probably do a lot better.
There's a moral problem which you mentioned. I don't think that would even be a problem.... if the enemy uses it and you don't you're fucked, so what do you do?
I see that the drone salesmen have setup a convention here to promote the sales of their drones.
But yes, if a military reunification happens, China should liberally use military drones, to assess the effectiveness and weakness, for future drone warfare doctrines and strategies. and Taiwan is good testbed and a landmark to show the world how modernized and far China's military has come.
Personally, I'm really excited for the future of drone warfare, and have seriously considered taking part in development of drones, after I'm done with college.
If you're excited about humans getting slaughtered by cold calculating machines then drone development is a great career choice for you!
Here's an idea for you. What if you make a small drone that can recharge its battery with solar power on its own. Once it sense the battery is below say 20%, then it automatously look for a decent place to land itself, then it unfold its solar panel to recharge, once full take off carry onto its merry way to slaughter hapless humans... I call it frog leap tactics for drones
How about we go one step further, and program the drone to get into civilian dwellings to find an outlet to charge themselves with, and tazer anyone who gets close?
The possibilities are endless with automated murder drones!
Mavic 3 from DJI has up to 15 km range, up to 6km altitude, and with 45 min flight time.
If that's in commercial market then I am sure that the military can do a lot better if they are willing to pay more money.
Current price is about $2500. Thats ultra cheap for the military, and as such, they would easily take a +2x increase in price for better capabilities
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