China has been making DSP since well over 10 years ago, which is useful for cellphones and especially for karaoke among other things.
KJ-600 carrierborne AEWC thread
- Thread starter Blitzo
- Start date
China has been making DSP since well over 10 years ago, which is useful for cellphones and especially for karaoke among other things.
Indeed. In this case, KJ-600 would fit the bill of a competing product, which arose through a different way of fielding its capability (fixed wing carrierborne AEW&C) compared to the way the USN reached E-2D (multiple iterations and variants of an existing platform).
Putting it another way, I'm saying that one does not need to go through the same "decades" or "50 years" of development and operation to reach a given level of capability or competency, especially if you are following the path someone else had already taken, allowing you to catch up potentially much faster.
I am familiar with the first two Y-8J and KL-200...but the real AEW aircraft that will make the difference is the done aircraft, the KJ-500/KJ-600.Of course not, they don't have such an aircraft yet. But a radar works the same way regardless of how its hosting platform is launched; it makes no difference to the radar whether the aircraft it's attached to was catapulted off a carrier or took off from a ground-based airstrip.
Then you have fallen behind on your PLA updates. The PLA's naval aviation forces have taken delivery of Y-8Js, KJ-200s and KJ-500s, and they are the naval air arm meaning their primary areas of operation are over the seas. The actual air force, even though not focused on maritime operations, have also flown over the seas.
The JASDF have taken pictures of Y-8Js and KJ-200s from the PLA's naval aviation, and KJ-200s from the PLA air force. Here's one of a naval Y-8J:
Here's one of a naval KJ-200:
And here's one of an air force KJ-200:
They were all photographed flying in the ADIZ declared by the JASDF, which is over the East China Sea.
Keyword: sea.
The KJ-200s entered service over a decade ago, not "five years", and the Y-8Js are coming up on almost twenty years.
Also, the amount of experience doesn't scale linearly with competency. For example, a country with aircraft operation experience of 100 years is not twice as competent as a country with 50 years experience, if at all. Once an organisation has reached a critical point in operational experience, there's practically no increases in competency for every additional year of operation thereafter. The PLAAF and PLANAF have almost definitely passed that critical point when it comes to operation of AEW&C radars, and Chinese industry has almost definitely passed that point when it comes to the design and manufacture of them.
Basically, your concerns for their carrier fixed-wing AEW&C radar have been moot since about 2012. Their competency with radar design, manufacture, and operation are as good as any other. It's their competency in the design and manufacture of the actual aircraft that carries the radar that can be questioned.
The other two are better than the helos and perhaps other aircraft the PLAN has had in the past for sure...but they are not the same, not as powerful, and not as capable (otherwise the PLAN would not need to put the development into the KJ-500/600)...but they are.
That is more secifically what I am talking about. And the US Navy has decades and decades of experience not only developing and building them, but making them operational and significantly improving them to the point of now having the E-2D...which are all new built airraft with orders of magnitude more capablility aross the sptrum of AEW operations.
The first KJ-500 that the PLAN make operational will be a significant achievement. No one else has ever done it. The French use a Hawkeye and it thie only other ountry flying such an aircraft.
So, while the KJ-500 will be an exceptional development by the PLAN it is not going to be what an E-2D is. In the coming years I have no doubts the PLAN and PRC will improve the design and make it more and more capable too, just as the US has done.
Anyhow...I suspect that the KJ-500 is the point of my discussion here. As you will be able to see by reading the thread back over the last ten + years...I have kept up with the others too. buit somehow thought that your implication was that a domed AEW aircraft had somehhow also been developed and flew functionally and operationally.
Time will tell about all else.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Just to summarize, I count 6 people so far who have pointed out to you that experience does not always equal superiority, as evidenced by every single event in history in which a new power (or company) overtook an older one. There were even modern examples (rail-gun, supercomputers, quantum communications, etc...the list can go on since these examples don't have to be limited to just China overtaking the US) given to you and after all that, your response is still summarized by, "But the US has more experience in AEW so it has to be the best at it."
Count as many as you would like. I did not just mention experience either.
Over they years experience has counted when it comes to many decisive things...but embedded in that experience is a lot of testing, development, improving, et.
It all work together.
And the one comment about the Summarians is just rediculous in the context of such a discussion.
The Summarians and many other cvilizations ran up against other nations with as much experience, but also with better technologies, better operational workings, and mored advanced skills, weaponry, etc., etc.
As I have said, the Chinese getting the KJ-500 and KJ-600 in the air is going to be a game hanger for the PRC and for the people facing them.
It does not mean that it will be as good as or bette r than the E-2D...not by a long shot.
Time will tell us that one.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Yes, you did, everything you mentioned was either direct experience or what you expect to be achieved by experience. So to summarize, basically just experience.
As demonstrated exactly by this "rebuttal" here.
It does not mean that the KJ-500/600 are as good as/better than the E-2D but it definitely doesn't mean that they won't be either. As I said, there is not enough information available to determine whether the KJ-500/600 are inferior, on par with or superior to the E-2D.
Wrong. They ran up against civilisations that had much less experience but better everything else. That's the point azesus was making; if experience were the 'end all, be all', the Assyrians and Sumerians would still be here today, dominating over the world.
In this case, disparity in experience doesn't even factor into the development of a Chinese airborne warning radar. They have been operating them for close to twenty years over water. They have learned practically all there is to learn about maritime airborne warning operations. At the same time, they've been developing airborne warning radar for more than fifteen years. Again, they have learned practically all there is to learn about developing and manufacturing maritime airborne warning radars. The USN possesses negligible advantage over China in the domain of airborne early warning and control radars. If you think the USN does possess advantages in this domain, list them. And don't give me vague allusions like "operational experience" or "more advanced skills", list the precise parameters that you think the USN possesses but China does not.
jeff, this kind of stuff, despite being true, only incites for country vs country endless discussion (already it is 4 pages long) and doesnt realy contribute for the topic (kj-600). IMO, its not very apropriate for a mod to post this messages.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
You thought that was clever, telling Jeff that something's inappropriate as a discussion topic, while scooting your lil' opinion in there that it's true? LOL.