JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[plawolf]

The British wouldn't be happy and will do whatever it takes to influence Chinese govt. to not selling them. But the Chinese are not stupid, they will ask some concessions from the British

The British have very little influence on China. The only thing the British can offer which might interest China is something the British cannot offer because their American masters won't allow it, and that is agreeing to lift the EU arms embargo on China.

But Argentina's finances are in a bad way, so there is a big question mark on whether they can afford the JF17. If they have the money, the JF17 would be perfect for them, and since their military has been so neglected over the last few decades, they pretty much need a top to bottom modernisation effort, so in that respects, it would make even more sense to go with the Chinese because of the cost saves, ToT and if Argentina buys several systems all from China, they should be able to network with and complement each other very nicely.

 

[i.e.]

I simply wonder whether Argentina can cough up that kind of money...unless if there's something to help spread the cost around, like JF-17 won big contract in South & Latin America, and Argentina will be the manufacturing + assembly service provider for orders in the region.

Supply Ecuador with JF-17 so they don't have to deport Snowden? good Idea!


Argentina has oil (potential) under Falklands, also Soybeans, Corn, Beef (Yum) and Ores.

also a bargaining chip with US in Pivot to Asia. although I doubt any S.American Government would seriously consider sticking up to the Empirium Yankeum.

 

[i.e.]

Why dont buy WS-13??

It will be quite a while, at least 3-4 years, before Argentina gets their JF-17 if they order.
So in your opinion, WS-13 will still be unreliable even in 2016/18.

Bad news for JF-17 and J-31....

Edit:
You mentioned in J-31 thread Post#233 that a mid-thrust turbo fan is in developement for a long time at Liyang. Is that WS-13??
So all chinese export fighters, JF-17, J-10, J-31 will have to use russian engines in the forseeable future, no wonder they have to buy Su-35....

Depends on how many WS-13 gets in service in the mean time. I doubt the total hours on the fleet would support WS-13 mature into a mature engine by that time frame. Unless some big customer decides in 4 years to buy 200 of them and running 500 hours each engine with a big overhual for every one of them in mean time. not likely to happen.

Its a matter of statistics. Engine reliability would not plateau out until you hit those kind of hours.

So F404 and RD-93 would be a better bet right now. unless of course F404s or RD-93s are not availble to Argentina which would be bizzare...

The Mid Thrust Next Gen is on and its not WS-13.

 

[i.e.]

will ZDK -03 be next on argentina wish list?

Some old 737s with a radome on top? awesome... I like the idea.

 

[i.e.]

SD10a/b, YJ82 and CM400AKG will definitely excite argentina --- naming it pampa3 [pampa lineage] however is not cool

Starting an assembly/manufacturing line along with concurrent training of pilots and crew is very costly and I wonder if argentinian gov is so motivated

assembly line is not hard. JF-17's airframe structure was intentionally designed for aerospace industries that is still on Mig-21 level of manufcaturing tech. i.e. semi-monocoque aluminum and some forging and machined parts. not much composites and fancy stuff.

system would be supplied as kits and boxes. no biggies.

training wise converting from Mirages to JF-17 is not so different as a american to a soviet fighter.

Its clearly the best bang for the buck out there.

you get something close to a class Grippen capability in its airframe and ordinance capability. for something like half of the cost.

 

[i.e.]

couple of stand off missiles fired from JF-17 onto Mount Pleasant render it unlandable, while Phoons are baited to scramble? classic!

 

[rolking]

The Mid Thrust Next Gen is on and its not WS-13.

So J-31 and even Sharp Sword is banking on the Mid Thrust Next Gen engine. Good to hear.

Depends on how many WS-13 gets in service in the mean time. I doubt the total hours on the fleet would support WS-13 mature into a mature engine by that time frame. Unless some big customer decides in 4 years to buy 200 of them and running 500 hours each engine with a big overhual for every one of them in mean time. not likely to happen.

Its a matter of statistics. Engine reliability would not plateau out until you hit those kind of hours.

Thanks for your insight. And it just hit me that why have nobody in this forum (or cdf) try to look at WS-10A maturity rate using the time hour to engine maturity i.e. mentioned. (instead of arguing over WS-10 maturity by looking at how many J-11 with Taihang pictures we can find on the net...)

How many J-11A/B are running WS-10, how many hours per plane per annum starting from 2009?? Calculate the total accumulated engine hours done by WS-10 and we can have a rough estimate on WS-10 maturity stage/level and how many years more till WS-10 is expected to mature...

Has anybody done this yet?? If no, someone should really do it and let us know when is WS-10 expected to mature. Will be great fun

 

[SinoSoldier]

Argentina would be probably interested in the YJ-83 as well. Their best hope of going up against RAF and RN is to take their assets out from long range. The YJ-83 would be immense trouble for the Type 45s since they are not equipped with a short range anti missile system. The four Eurofighters could be taken out before they take off. The export of the plane, assuming it's fitted with RD-93 engines, raises some questions. If China is able to export aircraft fitted with Russian engines, then that means that the J-11B and all the indigenous Flankers can be exported as well, especially when they have domestic engines.

 

[SinoSoldier]

argentina historically rely on europe (french,britain) or US for military aircxraft, a sudden switch to Chinese make avionic and engine could post a logistic problem.
argenitna I suspect may wanted either EJ-200 or M-88 engine,which not only lighter,higher thrust, low fuel consumption,longer MTBF.

Their current rather miniscule air force wouldn't pose much of a logistics threat. They probably use open source anyways.

 

[asif iqbal]

From Janes defence