JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread


Zahid

Junior Member
If I recall correctly, the exact word was "derived", not "based" as you claim. "Derived" is defined as having its original source based off, which in the JF-17 we can draw a clear line back to the Mig-21. If you consider outward muddling of the wording of my post to be an accomplishment, your standards must be very low indeed.
Semantics are no help in this case my friend. Bring objective facts.
 

Viktor Jav

Senior Member
Registered Member
Semantics are no help in this case my friend. Bring objective facts.
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If we look at this article, it gives reference to the Super Seven project which was a redesigned F-7 of which China based the FC-1 project. The F-7 in turn being a upgraded variant of the Mig-21.
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Also this excerpt from the book written by Saghir Iqbal, an intelligence analysis, clearly outlined the connection between the MIg-21 and the JF-17.
And finally this excerpt from Flight Global shows how the pre F-7 (MIg-21) differs from the Sabre II. The Sabre II being then used as the basis for the FC-1.
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So please lets continue to see anymore of your baseless fabrication and outright twisting of facts while presenting none of your own. This will not be the first , nor the last time I have dealt with people so swelled with Jingoism and blind nationalism that they can take no criticism or reason. Or take exaggerated relish to nitpick even the slightest fact.
 
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Viktor Jav

Senior Member
Registered Member
It is not about 1000 units. Its about your language and the way you describe JF-17 as being based off Mig-21. There would not be this conversation if you had only written about 1000 units being implausible.
Of which is true and have none in the way of ill will. If anyone, especially you, take offense that the JF-17 is "derived" from the Mig-2 (again I am highlighting this word since you have once again intentionally replace it with "based". Then you can only blame your own pettiness and ego for it. I have no responsibility to phrase my language to one which does not hurt your feelings.
 

Viktor Jav

Senior Member
Registered Member
Until someone gives evidence on how a fighter based on Mig-21 will be limited, that whole line is worthless.
There, you see. You consistently fail to see the entirety of my post and that of the discussion. You automatically assume that anyone who highlights the connection between the JF-17 and the MIg-21 has an axe to grind against it when it can be no further from the truth. The JF-17 which is derived from the Mig-21 was at it most basic a single seat fighter, So Pakistan could not have expended much resources to convert it into a two seater during the development phase, especially when India was procuring both Mig-29 and Su-27s while the earlier Sabre-II project was terminated.
 

3030

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Dear friends, I am sure many of us know of Mig-33. I would request to study similarities between Mig-33 with FC-1/JF-17 for example engine, wings and empanage configuration etc to know the origin of FC-1/JF-17.
Regards.
 

ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
There, you see. You consistently fail to see the entirety of my post and that of the discussion. You automatically assume that anyone who highlights the connection between the JF-17 and the MIg-21 has an axe to grind against it when it can be no further from the truth. The JF-17 which is derived from the Mig-21 was at it most basic a single seat fighter, So Pakistan could not have expended much resources to convert it into a two seater during the development phase, especially when India was procuring both Mig-29 and Su-27s while the earlier Sabre-II project was terminated.
What is the entirety of the discussion? Please tell us. You have verbal diarrhea but cannot find a point. Yes we ALL know it's based off Super 7 project which is intended to modernise a J-7 which is a Chinese licensed Mig-21. We all know this and it is very public fact. But what of it? You consistently fail to make a point. Are you trying to subtly say JF-17 is a 3rd gen fighter?

I don't understand the bold part. Maybe there's something here that leads to an interesting point. I don't know how you can make the conclusion that Pakistan couldn't have spent much on twin seat JF-17 conversion. That's if anything counter intuitive to the Mig-21 single seat basis.
 

Viktor Jav

Senior Member
Registered Member
I don't understand the bold part. Maybe there's something here that leads to an interesting point. I don't know how you can make the conclusion that Pakistan couldn't have spent much on twin seat JF-17 conversion. That's if anything counter intuitive to the Mig-21 single seat basis.
I have no surprise of your incomprehension, given the fact that you apparently need every single thing to be spoon fed to you on a silver ladle. Refer back to the very original post that I made and you might get an idea.
But since you have proven to be just that incapable, I will give you a water down version here : The original poster contended that if Pakistan had developed the JF-17 as a two seater from the ground up it would have achieve more than 1000 units in both domestic and export sales. That claim is both highly unrealistic as it is unfeasible. Because :
1) The Super Seven/ Saber II/ Mig-21 that the JF-17 was based off was a single seater. It would have taken additional effort and time for Pakistan to reconstruct it into a two seater version.
2)That time and effort is something that Pakistan could have ill afford during the 1990s. The PAF needed an immediate fighter to content with India's Su-30s and Mig-29s. So the decision was wisely made to build the JF-17 first as a single seat and pushing any potential development of the airframe to a later date until the PAF's immediate needs are satisfied.

Are you trying to subtly say JF-17 is a 3rd gen fighter?
No, I am trying to say that the JF-17 is a 3rd rate junk fighter that is barely even capable of lifting off without falling apart who's sole selling point is that is not worth more than a bag of peanuts. :p
Or at least that is version you want to hear, because it is clear that what ever I say gets put through an alternative universe converter located in your head.
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
You know what, as far as Pakistanis go, we are happy with our JF-17s. Be that if they're based off MiG-21s, doesn't matter one bit. What matters is that we have worked hard with our Chinese friends in achieving something which very, very few countries can possibly achieve. And that is to design, develop, manufacture and own source codes to make changes to the aircraft. That sort of freedom is priceless and it's that sort of freedom which cannot be leveraged under sanctions. So if anyone says that Thunders are based on MiGs, I say thank you and ask whom does your country buy fighter jets from?

Thunder gave Pakistan the ability to shape it's own future, without being blackmailed by another country on what Pakistan can and cannot do. And hey, it's worked out so well for us so far. As matter of fact, one can say that Pakistan has its cake and ate it! Got sanctioned coz of nuke program, developed Thunder program with friend and ally, China. In the end, not only did Pakistan become the only Muslim country to have nukes, but also an independent fighter program (free from West sanctions) but also upgraded and expanded F-16 fleet. So yeah ... MiG-21s, MiG-17s or the Bi-Plane. It doesn't matter to us Pakistanis, we are proud of working with our Chinese friends and achieving the impossible.
 

Aliusman

New Member
Registered Member
During war ,based on operational capability, sortie generation, Link 17 inter asset connectivity, decent Air defense capability, terrain in Northern Air Command and abundant field runways , PAF will give a bloody nose to IAF in our skies. In terms of combat air support the extensive live employment of ammunition in War on Terror with militants will also give a good bloody nose to the Indian Army armour. Thunder under our skies with in flight refueling, BVRAAM, AESA and Link 17 to AEW&C will be fighting on equal grounds to any Fulcrum(Mig-29) out of Adampur or Flanker(Su-30) out of Jodhpur. We will see when IAF ever initiates a battle. Their Mirages(M2K) were happy to be locked over Kharian by F-16 in 2008 anyway :)
 

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