JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

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Deleted member 13312

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With the new AESA radar some 150-200 JF-17 'Block 3+' would be a nice fit for PLAAF ORBAT, helping to provide point defence/air policing in certain sectors (replacing J-7 and, to lesser degree, longer-ranged J-8) whilst also providing some CAS capability to replace the capabilities that the Q-5 used to provide. Think of air policing along the border with Myanmar, Laos, Mongolia, etc.
Why oh why do people still think that China would want the JF-17 when they have the J-10 ? Both planes fulfill similar roles with similar capabilities but have different production and designs. To get 2 planes of a different make but similar function is costly, superfluous and irrational.
That is kinda like asking a nation to get the F-15 when they already have the Su-30.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
So based on Zhuhai airshow two possible radars for JF17 programme

Block 1 and 2 get the LETRI air cooled ASEA radar for upgrade from AVIC

The NRIET KLJ-7A ASEA for Block 3

Whole fleet is ASEA that would be great
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
The future of JF 17 look righter with the upcoming block III upgrade with AESA radar I guess Pakistan take the right approach by selecting modestly advance JF17 first and progressively upgrade the subsystem in the future model
From Henri K
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LKF601E, KLJ-7A ... Who will be the next AESA radar of the JF-17?
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2e8d649e1b274ce816887d2ce17d9964

BY
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JF-17 Block III, currently under development at AVIC's 611 Chengdu Institute for the Pakistan Air Force, is expected to include a new Active Antenna Radar (AESA) radar. And the only option available so far has always been the KLJ-7A, a radar with just over 1,000 T / R,
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and was
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, at least for what has been made public.

But the 12th edition of the Airshow China show held in November this year in Zhuhai was an opportunity for the Institute 607, radar subsidiary of the Chinese manufacturer AVIC, to challenge this received belief.

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LKF601E Active Antenna Radar (AESA) from the AVIC Institute 607 (LETRI) | Photos © East Pendulum

Indeed, this supplier of the AESA radar for the first J-16 of the Chinese Air Force presented the scale model of its LKF601E, in a well visible booth of the AVIC hall in Zhuhai. Unlike its competitor NRIET, which has chosen to hide the antenna part of its two similar AESA radars and publish no leaflets, the Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute (LETRI) is more about transparency. Visitors can not only observe the radar in detail, especially the antenna face, but LETRI has also distributed flyers giving some of the characteristics of its radar.

It should be noted that the AVIC radar operator does not fail to recall the main prospect of his new product, by putting on the presentation card the mention "Equipped with FC-1 Figther", FC-1 being the internal name given by AVIC for JF-17.

According to the manufacturer's data, the mass of the LKF601E is less than 145 kg, and it consumes an electric power around 4.0 kVA. The radar has a range of 170 km against targets assimilated to hunters (5 m²?), And is able to track 15 targets at a time and engage 4 simultaneously. As for its Air-Surface performance, the figures give a resolution of 1 m × 1 m in SAR mode, and up to 220 km range over a maritime area of 1,000 m².

Some net surfers claim that the radar is equipped with 864 T / R, after counting according to the images, but this remains of course to be confirmed.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
(cont)
In a video released by LETRI in early November, we also learn that the new AESA radar has already made its first tests on one of the prototypes of FC-1, the famous "06". The AVIC Radarist highlights two flagship features of its LKF601E, the first being full air cooling, which significantly reduces system weight and the need for rewiring, and the second is to replace the existing radar on the device without major modification, what LETRI calls "In-Situ replacement".

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Installation of the LKF601E radar on one of the FC-1 prototypes | Pictures: AVIC LETRI

For its part, NRIET, the main radar designer in China who already equips many fighters like the J-10C and the J-20 with its AESA radars, also comes to the Zhuhai show with two novelties, all derived from its KLJ- 7A known for two years.

The first is an active antenna radar mounted on a pivotable device, which offers a much wider field of vision than a fixed flat-face radar, like the VIXEN or RAVEN ES-05 radars designed by Selex Galileo. Instead of seeing in a cone of ± 60 °, this mechano-electronic hybrid scanning radar is capable of scanning in a wider field to ± 100 °, reaching a small part of the rear half-sphere.

Although NRIET did not give any details on this variant of KLJ-7A which it calls "KLJ-7A Mechanical-Electronic Scan", one can at least rely on the basic version to extrapolate and know its performances.

It is an AESA radar with more than 1000 transmitters and receivers, with at least 11 operating modes and a range of 170 km on targets of 5 m² SER, and capable of tracking 15 different targets and engage 4 simultaneously. The antennas are of "Notch" type installed in a brick architecture, unlike the "Patch" or "Slot" type that we have already seen on some Chinese PESA and AESA embedded radars. This shape generates a greater beam width and also a better gain.

It can be seen that the basic LKF601E and KLJ-7A have many of their identical characteristics, but there is not enough detail for a complete comparison.

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KLJ-7A Hybrid Scan Scanning Electromechanical | Photo © East Pendulum

The second variant of KLJ-7A that NRIET introduced this year for the first time is a system with not only one but three antennas, the main pointing forward and two others, smaller, towards the lateral sides.

The general idea resembles what the Russian Su-57 has today, with its AESA N036B side radars, or what was planned in Block 30 of the F / A-22A, namely side-view radars. The objective is to offer an even larger field of vision and this at any time, to reach 300 °, ie ± 150 ° for the plane. Only the rear cone of ± 60 ° remains "blind".

Note that the Chinese manufacturer has not used much to give it a name: "KLJ-7A Three Faces", a sign that it is also a product derived from the basic KLJ-7A.

As with the swivel disk version, NRIET did not provide any data on this version of KLJ-7A either. Radar personnel at Zhuhai simply indicated that it is the high-end variant of the product, and that the "customer" preferred the cheaper solution, implying the hybrid scan version.

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KLJ-7A radar "Three Plans" | Photos © East Pendulum

Which of these three radars (actually four) EASA will win in the JF-17 Block III program? Without being behind the scenes it would seem that the "KLJ-7A Electro-Electronic Scanning" is the solution chosen, if we believe in NRIET staff. This choice seems reasonable because it is probably the one that best reconciles the cost, the energy management, the logistics continuity and the desired performance for the Pakistan Air Force.

As for the LKF601E, the fact that LETRI only placed "FC-1" and not "JF-17" on the Zhuhai presentation sign suggests that it would remain at the proposal stage for the moment. AVIC would eventually market the future retrofit upgrade for JF-17's Block I and II, which were still produced for a hundred or so devices.

To be continued.
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
I would hope that Pakistan Air Force selects the second variant of KLJ-7A which are equipped with the additional side looking radars. I do wonder though, whether (when PAF chooses the KLJ-7All) the RD-93 would be sufficient a power plant.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
If the PAF does go for the KLJ7, there is actually an outside possibility of them getting both versions of it. Or maybe get the 3 array version, and then chose an even cheaper fixed single array version to offset the costs.

With datalinks and emission discipline, it would actually not be uncommon for a 4 ship flight of JF17s to only have 1 active emitting plane, while the rest operate with radars in passive mode and share the active scanning info via datalinks.

In that case, having 25% of the fleet with the 3 array version while the rest get a single fixed array version would not really sacrifice that much operational capability but give you potentially better overall performance at comparable or even lower cost than gettting the MES version for all the fleet.

Since the radars are all different version of the same design, there should be significant parts commonality, so maintenance costs should not be that much higher than getting a single type.

Although it may well be that the PAF is already thinking of adapting such an approach of only selectively upgrading some of the fleet to ASEA, and have them function as the main active scanner, while the bulk of the fleet would retain their existing slotted arrays and operate in much the Sam way rather than get AESA for the entire JF17 fleet.
 

[email protected]

Junior Member
Registered Member
while the bulk of the fleet would retain their existing slotted arrays and operate in much the Sam way rather than get AESA for the entire JF17 fleet.
As per former PAF Chief there will no FLEET with in FLEET of JF-17 which mean PAF will implement fleet wide upgrades, but this fleet wide upgrades will obviously take some time as most of JF-17 fleet specially blk-II are new jets as their production was started in Dec-2013 so pulse doppler KLJ-7 (V2) radars of bk-II may remain operational at least for next 3-5 years, while earlier blk-I may get the AESA upgrades first.

Block-III will go in production with AESA radar, so most of fleet in next 3-5 years will have AESA radars.
 
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