Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

FORBIN said:

Anyone known if Minelayer Uraga class can receive in their hangar MH-53E or now MCH-101 and if he are armed now with 2 Phalanx ( which was to replace the 2 guns of 20 mm ) ?

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The Uraga Class (of which two ships have been built) have a helo pad and hanger that is designed to carry one MH-53E Mine Countermeasure helicopter.

As to armament, I know the second vessel, the Bungo, MST 464, has a 76mm DP naval gun mounted on the bow. The first vessel, the Uraga, MST 463, was supposed to be fitted with one as well...but I am not sure if that happened.

Each was built to be a flagship of a mine sweeper flotilla.

They are large, modern vessels. Displacement in 5,650 tons. Length: 444 ft. Beam: 69 ft. Draft: 17.6 ft. They have a large helo landing pad.

Jeff Head said:

The Uraga Class (of which two ships have been built) have a helo pad and hanger that is designed to carry one MH-53E Mine Countermeasure helicopter.

As to armament, I know the second vessel, the Bungo, MST 464, has a 76mm DP naval gun mounted on the bow. The first vessel, the Uraga, MST 463, was supposed to be fitted with one as well...but I am not sure if that happened.

Each was built to be a flagship of a mine sweeper flotilla.

They are large, modern vessels. Displacement in 5,650 tons. Length: 444 ft. Beam: 69 ft. Draft: 17.6 ft. They have a large helo landing pad.

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wow! those minesweepers put the US navy's Avenger class or any minesweeper for that matter to shame!

kwaigonegin said:

wow! those minesweepers put the US navy's Avenger class or any minesweeper for that matter to shame!

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Yes. The JMSDF is very serious about Mine Counter Measures warfare.

And they have built a large number of various classes to implement it. Those two large Uraga Class vessels were built with the idea that they would be Mine Warfare Flotilla flagships. They have other Mine Countermeasure vessels similar to the Avengers...for example the Sugashima Class:


They have 12 of those vessels (and other classes too), which displace about 600 tons and which would use the larger Uraga class for support (like with the MH-53E helo they embark).

Also the Yaeyama Class:


These are larger at 1,200 tons, and would also be a part of MCM flotilla led by one of the two large Uraga Class.

There is a history of mine sweeping by Japan.
After disbanding of the IJN, former IJN sailors were asked by the US to clear mines during the Korean war. This is the restart of the JMSDF.

But why are JMSDF so serious about the Mine Counter Measures warfare?

Thank you Jeff, nice explanations !

Here ぶんご, Bungo only get the 76 gun.

It does not specify the number of mines board but SK/Wonsan, 3300 t and Wolei, 3100 t get 300 mines then maybe 500 ? !

Unusal ships, Minelayer with one big gun and one heavy helo.

In book classified ML but in fact MS also, polyvalent.

Uraga homeport Yokosuka and for Bungo, Kure, HQ direct control, independent units.

For JMSDF MS forces, OB, i have :

Yokosuka
Minesweeper Division 51: Yaeyama class x 3
Mine Sweeper Divison 41: Enoshima class x2 + SUGASHIMA class x 1
Mine Sweeper Divison 101 training : UWAJIMA Class x 2

Sasebo
Mine Sweeper Divison 2 : Hirashima class x 3

Kure
Mine Sweeper Divison 1 : Sugashima class x 3

Kobe
Mine Sweeper Divison 42 : SUGASHIMA class x 1, UWAJIMA Class x 2

Naha/Okinawa
Mine Sweeper Divison 46 : SUGASHIMA class x 2

Ominato
Mine Sweeper Divison 45 : UWAJIMA Class x 3

Simonoseki
Mine Sweeper Divison 43 : SUGASHIMA class x 3

Maizuru
Mine Sweeper Divison 44 : SUGASHIMA class x 2

27 MS, important fleet.

ToxicStar said:

But why are JMSDF so serious about the Mine Counter Measures warfare?

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Because mine warfare is an effective area denial weapon unless you can do something about it.

Also, it can be used out in the sea lanes as an effective tool against commercial shipping.

In the Western Pacific there are critical passages, where nations absoultely require their commercial shipping and life blood of resources to their nations to travel that could be terribly disrupted by mine warfare.

I believe the JMSDF has the best, and most sophisticated counter mine warfare capability in the region...and for those good reasons. They are prepared quickly to act against that type of threat with entire flotillas of vessels.

Now, those vessels would themselves require protection, so you see the Murasme and the Takaniami Classes built in numbers large enough to do so...and to probably be assisted by a Akizuki and a Kongo or Atago if necessary to help cover them while they accomplish the mine countermeaasrue mission.

The US Avengore class, and ultimately, with the mission pack installed, the Littoral Combat vessels will be able to perform the same types of missions.

Anyhow, hope that helps your understanding of the critical nature of this effort. Mines may seem like an old, World War I technology...but they have been upgraded with all sorts of high tech capabilities, and they are still an effective and relatively cheap weapon that any large maritime oriented nation has to take into strong consideration when developing its order of battle.

Jeff Head said:

Because mine warfare is an effective area denial weapon unless you can do something about it.

Also, it can be used out in the sea lanes as an effective tool against commercial shipping.

In the Western Pacific there are huge areas, where nations absoultely require their commercial shipping and life blood of resources to their nations to trave that could be terribly disrupted by mine warfare.

I believe the JMSDF has the best, and most sophisticated counter mine warfare capability in the region...and for those good reasons. They are preapred qucikcly to act against that type of threat with entire flotillas of vessels.

Now, those vessels would themselves require protection, so you see the Murasmis and the Takaniamis built in numbers large enough to do so...and to probably be assisted by a Akizuki and a Kongo or Atago if necessary to help cover them while they accomplish the mine countermeaasrue mission.

The US Avengore class, and ultimately, with the mission pack installed, the Littoral COmbat vessels will be able to perform the same types of missions.

Anyhow, hope that helps your understanding of the critical nature of this effort. Mines may seem like an old, World War I technology...but they have been upgraded with all sorts of high tech capabilities, and they are still an effective and relatively cheap weapon that any large maritime oriented nation has to take into strong consideration when developing its order of battle.

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To add to this, it is my opinion that it is the Japanese being very shrewd about this.

To get around their constitution, they produce the platform - frigate/destroyer sized military grade vessels; and when/if conflict arises (or if they change their constitution), they can add the relevant weapon and sensor systems to add significant offensive capabilities and make it a very powerful multi-role vessel in very short time.

It's what I would do if I were the Japanese.

perfume said:

To add to this, it is my opinion that it is the Japanese being very shrewd about this.

To get around their constitution, they produce the platform - frigate/destroyer sized military grade vessels; and when/if conflict arises (or if they change their constitution), they can add the relevant weapon and sensor systems to add significant offensive capabilities and make it a very powerful multi-role vessel.

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They would not change these vessels into destroyers or frigates. They were not designed for it, and the Japanese have no need for that...they do however, need them to be counter mine warfare vessels.

It is very expensive to add high end offensive weapons and the sensors to control them onto a vessel that does not have them.

The Japanese already have the second most powerful and modern frigate and destroyer navy on earth behind the US Navy. Their Kongo and Atago AEGIS vessels are very powerful and the Janaese indicate they will add two more Atagos. The MK-41 VLS they have on those vessels is designed to fire offensive land-attack cruise missiles if necessary, and it would be very easy for the JMSDF to quickly make these vessels capable of doing so.

The new Izumo Class carriers which have been assigned and are going to be outfitted for ASW work, could relatively easily be modified to embark up to 12 F-35B aircraft, if Japan ever decided to do so.

But the mine warfare vessels are for countering mine warfare. The JMSDF needs them for that. That is "real" combat. The Japanese have not designed these vessels to be some kind of destroyer or frigate in hiding.

The JMSDF already has plenty of front line FFGs and DDGs.

6 x Abakuma Class FFG, 2,500 tons
5 x Hatsuyuki Class FFG, 4,000 tons
8 x Asagiri Class FFG, 4,900 tons
9 x Murasami Class DDGs, 6,100 tons
5 x Takanami Class DDGs, 6,400 tons
4 x Akisuki Class DDG, 6,800 tons
4 x Kongo Class AEGIS DDG, 9,500 tons
4 x Atago Class AEGIS DDG, 10,000 tons (2 now, 2 more planned)
2 x Hyuga Class DDH, 20,000 tons
2 x Izumo Class DDH, 30,000 tons (1 now, 1 more planned)

That's 19 very capable, modern Frigates, and 30 very capable, modern Destroyers. More than any other navy in the world outside of the US Navy. The Japanese spend a lot of time and money exercising and training, alone and with the US Navy. They are recognized as being very professional and good at what they do. As BD Popeye would say, they are "squared away."

Jeff Head said:

Because mine warfare is an effective area denial weapon unless you can do something about it.

Also, it can be used out in the sea lanes as an effective tool against commercial shipping.

In the Western Pacific there are critical passages, where nations absoultely require their commercial shipping and life blood of resources to their nations to travel that could be terribly disrupted by mine warfare.

I believe the JMSDF has the best, and most sophisticated counter mine warfare capability in the region...and for those good reasons. They are prepared quickly to act against that type of threat with entire flotillas of vessels.

Now, those vessels would themselves require protection, so you see the Murasme and the Takaniami Classes built in numbers large enough to do so...and to probably be assisted by a Akizuki and a Kongo or Atago if necessary to help cover them while they accomplish the mine countermeaasrue mission.

The US Avengore class, and ultimately, with the mission pack installed, the Littoral Combat vessels will be able to perform the same types of missions.

Anyhow, hope that helps your understanding of the critical nature of this effort. Mines may seem like an old, World War I technology...but they have been upgraded with all sorts of high tech capabilities, and they are still an effective and relatively cheap weapon that any large maritime oriented nation has to take into strong consideration when developing its order of battle.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the info Jeff Head!