Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

aonestudio

Just Hatched
Registered Member
August 23, 2018

Lockheed offers Japan majority of work in plan for new fighter jet
The upgraded version of the F-22 would incorporate advanced features

TOKYO -- Lockheed Martin has proposed that Japanese companies be responsible for more than half of the development and production of a next-generation fighter jet that Japan wants to introduce in 2030, Nikkei learned Wednesday.


Lockheed is offering Japan an upgraded version of the existing F-22. The U.S. currently bans exports of the plane known as "the Raptor," which is considered the world's most powerful fighter, has stealth capabilities and is armed with eight air-to-air missiles.


The U.S. aircraft manufacturer's decision to open the production to Japan comes out of the belief that there is little risk of technology leaks. The company also says providing the jet to Japan would contribute to the security of Asia. If the share of work pans out as proposed, it would strengthen Japan's defense industry and the Japan-U.S. alliance.


Lockheed's proposal comes in response to concerns in Japan that American companies might monopolize the development and production of the upgraded warplane, leaving little room for Japanese partners' involvement. The company calls the plan a Japan-led framework.


The next-generation fighter will replace Japan's F-2 jets, scheduled to retire around 2030. Tokyo initially looked for ways for Japan Inc. to completely develop a successor on its own, hoping to boost the domestic defense industry's orders, but the idea proved unfeasible due to technological and cost hurdles.


The Japanese government sees Lockheed's proposal, which could deliver high performance at reduced development costs, as the most promising alternative.


The next-generation fighter program is estimated to cost about 6 trillion yen ($54.2 billion), including development, acquisition and maintenance. Some voices are citing a need to update the F-22, which has been deployed since around 2000, and Lockheed's plan has the benefit of lowering upgrade costs shouldered by the U.S.


Although Japan produced 60% of the jointly developed F-2, the U.S. handled engine development since Japan did not have the basic technology at the time. But Lockheed has expressed a willingness this time to shift development and production of new engines to major Japanese heavy machinery maker IHI in the future. If IHI's XF9-1 jet engine is adopted, Japanese companies could be responsible for more than 60% of the total work.


In addition, the exports of high--margin military equipment for the project could ease the U.S. trade deficit with Japan.


Mitsubishi Electric's fighter jet electronics system could be adopted, and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries will handle the development and production of wings, according to the plan. The aircraft's body, engines and the fighter system are to be made in the U.S., but Lockheed intends to use more Japanese-made components, incorporating them gradually until Japanese companies play a central role in development.


To hasten development, Lockheed will send Japan F-22s that have not been deployed by the U.S. Air Force so that it can grasp its performance in advance.


The updates will improve the plane's main wings and allow more fuel to be loaded, increasing the jet's range to about 2,200 km so it can be used to defend isolated islands and other missions.


Although the F-22 has the most advanced stealth abilities in the world, it requires a special coating that is laborious to maintain. Maintenance will be simplified by using the same material as the F-35 stealth fighter, making it easier to perform drills and deploy for battle.


One challenge is the cost. Lockheed estimates the price of the next-generation fighter will be far higher than the F-35's 15 billion yen-per-jet price tag. Lockheed estimates the price of a next-generation F-22 at about 24 billion yen if it is part of an order of 70 aircraft. Producing 140 of the jets could reduce the unit price to about 21 billion yen.

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August 23, 2018

Lockheed offers Japan majority of work in plan for new fighter jet
The upgraded version of the F-22 would incorporate advanced features

TOKYO -- Lockheed Martin has proposed that Japanese companies be responsible for more than half of the development and production of a next-generation fighter jet that Japan wants to introduce in 2030, Nikkei learned Wednesday.


Lockheed is offering Japan an upgraded version of the existing F-22. The U.S. currently bans exports of the plane known as "the Raptor," which is considered the world's most powerful fighter, has stealth capabilities and is armed with eight air-to-air missiles.


The U.S. aircraft manufacturer's decision to open the production to Japan comes out of the belief that there is little risk of technology leaks. The company also says providing the jet to Japan would contribute to the security of Asia. If the share of work pans out as proposed, it would strengthen Japan's defense industry and the Japan-U.S. alliance.


Lockheed's proposal comes in response to concerns in Japan that American companies might monopolize the development and production of the upgraded warplane, leaving little room for Japanese partners' involvement. The company calls the plan a Japan-led framework.


The next-generation fighter will replace Japan's F-2 jets, scheduled to retire around 2030. Tokyo initially looked for ways for Japan Inc. to completely develop a successor on its own, hoping to boost the domestic defense industry's orders, but the idea proved unfeasible due to technological and cost hurdles.


The Japanese government sees Lockheed's proposal, which could deliver high performance at reduced development costs, as the most promising alternative.


The next-generation fighter program is estimated to cost about 6 trillion yen ($54.2 billion), including development, acquisition and maintenance. Some voices are citing a need to update the F-22, which has been deployed since around 2000, and Lockheed's plan has the benefit of lowering upgrade costs shouldered by the U.S.


Although Japan produced 60% of the jointly developed F-2, the U.S. handled engine development since Japan did not have the basic technology at the time. But Lockheed has expressed a willingness this time to shift development and production of new engines to major Japanese heavy machinery maker IHI in the future. If IHI's XF9-1 jet engine is adopted, Japanese companies could be responsible for more than 60% of the total work.


In addition, the exports of high--margin military equipment for the project could ease the U.S. trade deficit with Japan.


Mitsubishi Electric's fighter jet electronics system could be adopted, and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries will handle the development and production of wings, according to the plan. The aircraft's body, engines and the fighter system are to be made in the U.S., but Lockheed intends to use more Japanese-made components, incorporating them gradually until Japanese companies play a central role in development.


To hasten development, Lockheed will send Japan F-22s that have not been deployed by the U.S. Air Force so that it can grasp its performance in advance.


The updates will improve the plane's main wings and allow more fuel to be loaded, increasing the jet's range to about 2,200 km so it can be used to defend isolated islands and other missions.


Although the F-22 has the most advanced stealth abilities in the world, it requires a special coating that is laborious to maintain. Maintenance will be simplified by using the same material as the F-35 stealth fighter, making it easier to perform drills and deploy for battle.


One challenge is the cost. Lockheed estimates the price of the next-generation fighter will be far higher than the F-35's 15 billion yen-per-jet price tag. Lockheed estimates the price of a next-generation F-22 at about 24 billion yen if it is part of an order of 70 aircraft. Producing 140 of the jets could reduce the unit price to about 21 billion yen.

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aonestudio
why don't you go on:

"There is also concern that including Japanese companies, which have not independently developed a fighter jet in recent years, could complicate production and ramp up costs. Lockheed initially estimated that the F-35A would cost about 10 billion yen per jet. Costs temporarily rose to 17 billion yen, however, when assembly was given to Japanese companies, a cause for concern this time."

etc. LOL
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
was curious of :
"During the 1998 Rim of the Pacific Exercise off the coast of Hawaii, Adm. Archie Clemens, commander in chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, was dumbfounded as a monitor screen showed that eight vessels of his fleet were “attacked and sunk” one after another by a single MSDF submarine."

20 years, not bad for
Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
LOL!
The most important equipment in sub hunting, the human ear hasn't really evolved that much within that time don't you think?
Sonar hasn't changed that much either since it is a mature technology.
One more thing JMSDF sub personnel has mentioned many time in the past that Listening for a PLAN subs is like listening to the banging sound of a GONG at close range they will never miss it.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
aonestudio
why don't you go on:

"There is also concern that including Japanese companies, which have not independently developed a fighter jet in recent years, could complicate production and ramp up costs. Lockheed initially estimated that the F-35A would cost about 10 billion yen per jet. Costs temporarily rose to 17 billion yen, however, when assembly was given to Japanese companies, a cause for concern this time."

etc. LOL
Unlike the F-2 Fiasco Japan completely has the upper hand with a very capable engine already on the test bed with various other technology already in hand Lockheed doesn't have many chips for bargaining this time.
 

Inst

Captain
I'm looking forward to seeing a Japanese F-3; simply because all the domestic prototypes have been quite interesting to date. Moreover, the American F-22 is slightly obsolete; unlike the F-35, it lacks EO/IR detection ability (at least until MLU) and has obsolescent electronics, although clearly ahead of any 4th gen fighter in existence. A Japanese F-22 update can easily be back-ported to the United States once it's done.

For the J-20, later developments of the airframe will clearly be superior to the F-22, namely because the J-20 is a later fighter and built as a canard frame. Against an upgraded F-22, on the other hand, all bets are off. The F-3 will act as a stimulus for Chengdu to step up their game and keep moving forward; resting on their laurels is in reach, but design competition vs the F-22 will help keep the fight on-going.

The question is, however, how long will the F-3 take to reach IOC? If it's in the 2030 ranges, the PLAAF will already have a 6th gen IOC-ed around that time so the F-3 will end up being a bit of a joke.
 
Unlike the F-2 Fiasco Japan completely has the upper hand with a very capable engine already on the test bed with various other technology already in hand Lockheed doesn't have many chips for bargaining this time.
while according to the article posted
#3111 aonestudio, Today at 12:58 AM
:
Some doubt that the U.S. will fully disclose core technology for the world's most powerful fighter jet. Although Lockheed plans to outfit the jet with several Japan-made weapons in an effort to include as much domestic technology as possible, the U.S. will initially be responsible for most of the work, with Japanese companies gradually joining the process later. It is unclear, however, when development will proceed to that second stage.

"It is likely that the U.S. will not want to give up such core technologies as fighter systems and software," said Heigo Sato, a professor at Takushoku University. "The technological spillover to Japanese companies would be limited if they mostly receive subcontracting work."
 
The most important equipment in sub hunting, the human ear hasn't really evolved that much within that time don't you think?
Sonar hasn't changed that much either since it is a mature technology.
One more thing JMSDF sub personnel has mentioned many time in the past that Listening for a PLAN subs is like listening to the banging sound of a GONG at close range they will never miss it.
LOL if your point is Chinese subs are noisy, instead of posting Yesterday at 4:12 PM twenty years old stuff you should've gone to some PLAN Subs Thread, and I would've had fun reading how pro-China team roughs you up
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Ultimately...you are probably right.

But I believe they will pull out a 2-4 ship class of an enhanced Izumo with 20-24 F-35Bs on it first.

The koreans are goving them the perfect preteext to do so...and I know the US would welcome it.

4 carriers with a decent AEW platform (and I would love to see the JMSDF push for and get developed an EV-22 for that role), armed with 24 F-35Bs wiould counter the carriers the Chinese are building...particularly in conjunction with other allies.

Once that has happeneded and been in place a few years...and as China then builds nuclear powered larger c arriers...in that time frame we might see the JMSDF come up with a full size, full deck carrier. That would be in the mid 2030 time frame IMHO. But they could put those four other carriers into operation before 2030.

absolutely, flying the F-35 Bravos off those carriers will provide capability NOW,,, if things continue to unwind as rapidly as they have in the last three or four years, you better be thinking in the near term! rather than 10-15 years down the road....

I honestly am rather shocked at the flavor of relations these days? but hey, it is what is is, you better be ready for the other shoe to drop....
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Unlike the F-2 Fiasco Japan completely has the upper hand with a very capable engine already on the test bed with various other technology already in hand Lockheed doesn't have many chips for bargaining this time.

I would think you, of all people, might appreciate what is at stake, and might appreciate the fact that Lockheed Martin and more importantly the United States stand with the Japanese people??

Offering Japan the technology to build an F-22 Advanced Raptor, should be as thrilling to you as it is to me, and don't forget, Japan solicited this help?? right???

Lockheed is making a very generous offer, saying thanks is always appropriate,,, even though Central Obamastan is a LONG WAY from the threat, I myself personally very much appreciate our Japanese partner's, I appreciate our Taiwanese partners as well, in fact I am very personally appreciative, thank you for your strategic partnership!

In fact I anticipate that the US Air Force will also likely very, very interested in acquiring some Upgraded Raptor's, in fact I know they will!
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
I would think you, of all people, might appreciate what is at stake, and might appreciate the fact that Lockheed Martin and more importantly the United States stand with the Japanese people??

Offering Japan the technology to build an F-22 Advanced Raptor, should be as thrilling to you as it is to me, and don't forget, Japan solicited this help?? right???

Lockheed is making a very generous offer, saying thanks is always appropriate,,, even though Central Obamastan is a LONG WAY from the threat, I myself personally very much appreciate our Japanese partner's, I appreciate our Taiwanese partners as well, in fact I am very personally appreciative, thank you for your strategic partnership!

In fact I anticipate that the US Air Force will also likely very, very interested in acquiring some Upgraded Raptor's, in fact I know they will!

I don't think you real know what happened with the F-2 "Joint" project.
Japan already had designed the F-2 when the US "Insisted that it be a "Joint" project. US "Insisted" that Japan should pursue to utilize Carbon Fiber Composite for the air frame so Japan shouldered the budget and technological expertise to develop the manufacturing process of how to utilize carbon fiber composite material. US also "Insisted" on Japan pursuing AESA type on-board radar so Japan again Shouldered the budget and know how to develop that as well in exchange the US promised to disclose turbofan technology.
The US taken all the data on the manufacturing process of Carbon fiber technology as well as all the research data on AESA radar development FOR FREE without disclosing any knowledge on Fan turbine technology that the US had promised.
The US did not shoulder any of the development cost took all the research data and did not disclose their covenant technology.
Why in god's place on earth should Japan appreciate that kind of treatment?
The only thing Japan obtained was the design blueprints of the F-16 which was in no ways cutting edge technology and was too small for Japan's scope of usage so we had to upscale the design again on our own.
 
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