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FORBIN

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
I speculate that the F-35 will be taking on the specialized reconnaissance roles that the present RF-4EJ are tasked
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Never see a recc pod for F-35.

Japan plans July fighter jet tender seen worth $40 billion as China tensions simmer
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I am surprised Japan to wake up suddenly, the problem... is not new and in more old F-4 few capable mainly for A2A combat mainly on 200 F-15J/DJ only a part 80 are modernized :

I have 84 F-15J Kai mod with APG-63(V)1 and only 8 with APG-63(V)3 AESA, few !
The not modernised can be considered not able to BVR combat a big handicap now with majority of fighters able...

Samurai pls not easy with Asian languages... only J modernised and both capable fired AIM-120 and AAM-4 only for F-2 ?
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In more only 42 F-35A is not enough for replaced F-4 in 2 sqns of 20 + some training, tests, attrition normaly 45/50.

And without compromise a new Japan fighter really more fast for the ramp up ordered 80/100 F-35 for replaced the more old F-15, very curious choices and in more i am almost sure they get money if they want.
 
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SamuraiBlue

SamuraiBlue

Captain
FORBIN said:
Never see a recc pod for F-35.



I am surprised Japan to wake up suddenly, the problem... is not new and in more old F-4 few capable mainly for A2A combat mainly on 200 F-15J/DJ only a part 80 are modernized :

I have 84 F-15J Kai mod with APG-63(V)1 and only 8 with APG-63(V)3 AESA, few !
The not modernised can be considered not able to BVR combat a big handicap now with majority of fighters able...

Samurai pls not easy with Asian languages... only J modernised and both capable fired AIM-120 and AAM-4 only for F-2 ?
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This link provides more information.

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On 10 December 2004, the Japanese Government approved a Mid-Term Defense Program (MTDP) to modernize the F-15J MSIPs over five years in accordance with new National Defense Program Guidelines.The upgrade is being implemented in phases, but ultimately the upgrade will include a new ejection seat; replaced IHI-220E engines; more powerful processor; uprated electrical generation and cooling capabilities to support more avionics and the Raytheon
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radar.
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which has been produced under license by
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since 1997. Raytheon expects the radar will ultimately be installed in 80 F-15Js.The new radar will support the
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missile, the Japanese answer to the
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.
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T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
SamuraiBlue said:
JASDF considers F-35 merely as stop gaps to replace the antiquated f-4J/F-4JKs.
That is the reason why JASDF only ordered 40 units.
The F-3 development mission is actually to rectify the problems made in the past.
The F-2 was suppose to take on some of the air superiority roles that at the moment the F-15 J are doing and replace some of the F-4J but it didn't live up to the high expectation the JASDF placed on them.
I speculate that the F-35 will be taking on the specialized reconnaissance roles that the present RF-4EJ are tasked.
Click to expand...
If I understand you right, your point is that F35 steps in for F4 for the striking role. F-3 replaces F-2 (which somewhat failed its requirement) to add air superiority, essentially for F-15's role.

But my gathering from my reading (not my own conclusion) is that F-35A is only behind F-22 in air superiority task. So it appears to me that F-3 is another effort to develop an air superiority fighter close or equal to F-22 after U.S. refused its selling to Japan. That is a very high ambition (not saying Japan can't achieve it), but does it worth it than focusing on F-35? After all, if F-35 is as good as it is claimed it is already a top-tear in the class, and most importantly, the development cost has been covered by many countries, the unit price would be much lower than F-3.

So I will have to wait for further details to be revealed before I make up my conclusion.
 
P

PanAsian

Major
taxiya said:
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I am confused by the move as the target of F3 is to replace F2, a multirole fighter which overlaps F-35 Japan just purchased and begin local produced. The mission is overlapping and the cost of developing a totally new aircraft won't be much cheaper than buying F-35.
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SamuraiBlue said:
JASDF considers F-35 merely as stop gaps to replace the antiquated f-4J/F-4JKs.
That is the reason why JASDF only ordered 40 units.
The F-3 development mission is actually to rectify the problems made in the past.
The F-2 was suppose to take on some of the air superiority roles that at the moment the F-15 J are doing and replace some of the F-4J but it didn't live up to the high expectation the JASDF placed on them.
I speculate that the F-35 will be taking on the specialized reconnaissance roles that the present RF-4EJ are tasked.
Click to expand...

I think that Japan would like to have as much of an independent capability as possible to produce a complete platform tailored to its own requirements competitive with the world's best, or at least the homework/R&D/understanding on how to deconstruct and confront equivalents.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
PanAsian said:
I think that Japan would like to have as much of an independent capability as possible to produce a complete platform tailored to its own requirements competitive with the world's best, or at least the homework/R&D/understanding on how to deconstruct and confront equivalents.
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I agree with the independent motivation as the main reason of F-3 with Japan being the system owner and integrator while others being the component suppliers.
 
SamuraiBlue

SamuraiBlue

Captain
taxiya said:
If I understand you right, your point is that F35 steps in for F4 for the striking role. F-3 replaces F-2 (which somewhat failed its requirement) to add air superiority, essentially for F-15's role.

But my gathering from my reading (not my own conclusion) is that F-35A is only behind F-22 in air superiority task. So it appears to me that F-3 is another effort to develop an air superiority fighter close or equal to F-22 after U.S. refused its selling to Japan. That is a very high ambition (not saying Japan can't achieve it), but does it worth it than focusing on F-35? After all, if F-35 is as good as it is claimed it is already a top-tear in the class, and most importantly, the development cost has been covered by many countries, the unit price would be much lower than F-3.

So I will have to wait for further details to be revealed before I make up my conclusion.
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The common problem with all present air superiority fighters is that it can only fight on an one to one basis in which if there are more then a one ratio during a dog fight then the one who has quantified superiority has a much higher chance of dominating the field regardless of model.
This becomes more important as both side has stealth which will minimize the distance to engage in a mid range missile exchange distance with mid~long range AA missiles.
If you are able to bring in drones into the mix then the enemy/ally ratio becomes better for the one who brings in drones even if the number of piloted fighters are in a disadvantage because the drone will fight in a formation with the fighter in which they can either act as bait or take down an enemy plane with the piloted fighter act as bait in an multiple plane dog fight scenario.
 
A

antiterror13

Brigadier
@SamuraiBlue .... Well ....., drone can be utilised by the enemy as well, not only Japan produce a drone (or buy from the US ?) ... a few countries (dont want to name it as everybody knows :) ) already designed and manufactured advanced drones and been exported everywhere and battle proven ... I haven't seen Japanese made drone achieved that level yet .. but of course I have no doubt Japanese technology is better than those countries .... no question :p;)
 
SamuraiBlue

SamuraiBlue

Captain
To achieve swarm technology, each drone and plane needs to acknowledge position of each other in which present on-board radar is not capable since it can only detect in a fairly narrow area in front of the plane. This is why skin radar technology is required in which it will not be strong but will be able to provide telemetry of all objects in a 360° bubble.
 
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