Japan economics thread.

[coolgod]

I feel that people are who are heavily anti-Japanese support their fatalism and use it as a shield, because they want to see it become a "small insignificant island" in a fatalistic suicidal manner.

Lmao I'm not anti-Japanese, probably more pro-Japanese than many here, but the fate of Japan is not something foreign netizens can decide. Japan's luck from the discovery of silver mines, to early political-economical reform, to militarism and to US role model colony has run out. The facts are Japan's relatively high standing in the world for the past 500 years is an aberration, historically Japan was way less developed than China and Korea.

Sorry to burst your fantasies, but Japan's peak has long past, its the empire of the setting sun now.

 

[Petrolicious88]

Japan is only in such a death spiral because it's a vassal of an empire in decline. When it switches to being a Chinese "tributary state", it'll reclaim much of its former glory.

Why would Japan want to switch to being a Chinese vassal. Having a dominant, powerful china right next door is good for Japan's strategic environment? Japan is more concerned about China than America.

 

[Serb]

Why would Japan want to switch to being a Chinese vassal. Having a dominant, powerful china right next door is good for Japan's strategic environment? Japan is more concerned about China than America.

Because China wouldn't depend upon Japan's misfortune to thrive in general as the US depends upon, alongside other vassals too, and even increasingly so, as China is the one who is truly exceptional and doesn't need to rely on outside plunder to develop (Western colonial model) when it has 1.4 billion smartest people on the planet and can develop on its own, as it was the case for the majority of the recorded history when it was the most successful power in continuity, by measuring years on top in total, not just last 500 years.

Why would they exploit Japan, as the US, then? They have better things to do - develop and invest internally to the fullest. They have the best human, social, and political capital to thrive on their own, in the world, whereas the US has the opposite, it just has a lucky-gained hegemonic position (alongside the entire West) it wants to hold one for which it cannibalizes even its allies/vassals fully now.

That's why they are so "insecure" also, so they go starting hundreds of wars all over the planet to preserve that hegemony, hundreds of trade restrictions, starting tech wars, threatening countries to use dollar and treasuries, and everything else in between, whereas China isn't insecure, it has the capabilities to be stronger than anyone internally, so why would it be threatened by Japan and continuously pummel it down as the US?

So, they don't need to put any 'voluntary export quotas', forced manipulation of currency, or forced monetary policy so Japan now needs to go to Washington first to ask if they can sell their UST holdings or de-dollarize part of their trade in energy, forced economic model transition for their capitalists to exploit, forced military occupation with bases above law, forcefully using Japan as the "launchpad" against China, to be destroyed, etc. The US/West, in general, depends on exploiting others to thrive, even its allies/vassals, whereas China develops on its own.

That's what's an objective reality, everything else is CIA controlling Japanese politicians, mass Stockholm Syndrome, nuclear bombs, media propaganda brainwashing, etc. But even with all of this, there are probably still many Japanese who could see what I'm talking about. And btw, China was "dominant" throughout its entire history over Japan, and they didn't even invade them once, Japan invaded them in the end instead.

So your "logic" then is that it is a better situation for Japan to be punched in the face continuously every day by the US, as opposed to trading that for actually no punching anymore and a very little chance (looking historically) that China might "attack" them one day for no reason?

 

[AssassinsMace]

Japan is concerned about its place in the world more than anything else. The only way it can stand out of China’s shadow is to make sure the West is anti-China. I’ve been hearing about Japanese anti-China lobbying in the US since the 80s because the West was anti-Japanese. They wanted the attention off them.

 

[Petrolicious88]

So your "logic" then is that it is a better situation for Japan to be punched in the face continuously every day by the US, as opposed to trading that for actually no punching anymore and a very little chance (looking historically) that China might "attack" them one day for no reason?

US is “punching” Japan everyday? Sure in that relationship US is top dog and Japan is told to sit down when it overreaches (this is true in any vassal vs. dominating state relationship). But how is US punching Japan daily.

And you are assuming China will always be a benign hegemon in East Asia. Japan would be a fool to assume that.

 

[Randomuser]

Lmao I'm not anti-Japanese, probably more pro-Japanese than many here, but the fate of Japan is not something foreign netizens can decide. Japan's luck from the discovery of silver mines, to early political-economical reform, to militarism and to US role model colony has run out. The facts are Japan's relatively high standing in the world for the past 500 years is an aberration, historically Japan was way less developed than China and Korea.

Sorry to burst your fantasies, but Japan's peak has long past, its the empire of the setting sun now.

500 years is pushing it. It's only in the 1800s Japan really became something after the Meiji era.

In the Sengoku Jidai which is supposed to be the warring states/three kingdom period of Japan, the first guy to unite the country was Oda Nobunaga. In the time where samurai were at their prime, Oda said fuk that, I'm gonna use peasants and arm them with Portuguese guns or something to kill all the Samurai. And he did which shows that the great unifier of Japan did it by not relying on native Japan stuff. That kinda shows why Japan wasn't much before they modernized using western concepts.

To be fair China is doing the same right now using western stuff to advance. But isn't that exactly why Japan is in a lot of pain now? Before only they modernized in Asia. But now their neighbours have also done so, what advantage does Japan have now?

 

[coolgod]

500 years is pushing it. It's only in the 1800s Japan really became something after the Meiji era.

In the Sengoku Jidai which is supposed to be the warring states/three kingdom period of Japan, the first guy to unite the country was Oda Nobunaga. In the time where samurai were at their prime, Oda said fuk that, I'm gonna use peasants and arm them with Portuguese guns or something to kill all the Samurai. And he did which shows that the great unifier of Japan did it by not relying on native Japan stuff. That kinda shows why Japan wasn't much before they modernized using western concepts.

To be fair China is doing the same right now using western stuff to advance. But isn't that exactly why Japan is in a lot of pain now? Before only they modernized in Asia. But now their neighbours have also done so, what advantage does Japan have now?

I put 500 years cause that's when the Iwami Ginzan silver mine was discovered, without the silver how could Japan have even obtained the Portuguese guns.

 

[azn_cyniq]

US is “punching” Japan everyday? Sure in that relationship US is top dog and Japan is told to sit down when it overreaches (this is true in any vassal vs. dominating state relationship). But how is US punching Japan daily.

And you are assuming China will always be a benign hegemon in East Asia. Japan would be a fool to assume that.

What would China gain by occupying Japan? I can't stop Japan from worrying about that, but it would be a fool to worry about that. Japan tried to occupy China because China has a lot of resources and land. Japan has neither. China-Japan relations are bad, but Japanese movies still regularly make $100 million or more in China. If China-Japan relations improved, China could become a massive market for Japanese artists. Thousands upon thousands of Japanese scientists and engineers currently work in China. That number would only increase if China-Japan relations improved.

Japan doesn't want to be dominated by anyone, especially China. I understand that. Nonetheless, what can Japan do? It can't conquer the world so it can only try its best to find a way to prosper.

In a China-led East Asia the main difference would be that China would not have troops in Japan. Everything else would be more or less the same. It wouldn't be the best possible outcome for Japan, but Japan would still be prosperous.

The US may not be punching Japan, but it is surely strangling it. Americans are taking advantage of the weakness of the Yen and buying up Japanese stocks. When all is said and done, Americans will own most of Japan's companies and most of Japan's profits will flow to the US. That already happens in South Korea and Taiwan, where Americans own ~70% of Samsung (preferred shares) and ~80% of TSMC.

I can't guarantee that China would be better, but I am sure that China's government is smart enough to avoid the mistakes of the US.

 

[supersnoop]

In the time where samurai were at their prime, Oda said fuk that, I'm gonna use peasants and arm them with Portuguese guns or something to kill all the Samurai.

Correction:
It was actually Tokugawa. Nobunaga died before achieving his ambition.

 

[Randomuser]

Correction:
It was actually Tokugawa. Nobunaga died before achieving his ambition.

The three unifiers of Japan are Nobunaga, Hideyoshi and Tokugawa where then latter two worked under Nobunaga. I mentioned Nobunaga because he was the one who set things forward. Without him, the other two wouldn't achieve their success.

It should also be noted despite Japan claiming to be about Samurai honor, Tokugawa who ultimately won out was the complete opposite. A slimey traitor who broke his oaths when opportunity presented itself. Under his rule, Japan also became isolated and not relevant to the world until the Americans later on forced themselves into Japan. So something to consider when believing that crap about honor or forward thinking when it comes to Japan.