J-XY/J-35 carrier-borne fighter thread

[Alfa_Particle]

Newer materials, production methods, design etc.

Like, older 4th gen fighters (and even a lot of newer 4.5th gen upgrades and the likes) use older methods for airframe production and the likes from like ~80s, 90s and 00s.

Versus newer 5th gen with late 00s and 10s tech and upgrades (especially stuff like carbon fiber).

Shouldn't be that surprising that weight savings of some 10-30% happens.

We're approaching a singularity for aircraft weight to engine thrust, it seems.

Oh yea, this is also something that's gonna be very hard for other nations to catch up with as well.

Completely agree. Composite development and manufacturing in it's own is another can of worms like engines. I do have doubts about the KF-21 and KAAN.

I guess the J-35 is kind of the pioneer of a newer category of 5th Gens, with the more advanced manufacturing techniques and technology.

 

[latenlazy]

Can't remember any solid figures of the top of my head, so feel free to correct any of my figures used.

For the J-20, assuming an empty weight of 19 tonnes, with WS-10C having a thrust of 150kN each, the TWR would be 1.61.

The J-20A has to be somewhat heavier with the hump and WS-15, so I'll assume 21 tonnes. WS-15 has 181kN each so that makes a TWR of 1.758.

According to Gongke, an old leaker at GAIC who has now gone dark, the empty weight of the J-20 is ~17500 kg. Started off at 16500 kg and increased during development of the production variant. Obviously no way to confirm this so take it with a healthy helping of salt.

 

[Atomicfrog]

Empty TWR of 1.5 is a lot, by my calculation Super Hornet's empty TWR is 1.37, F-35C is 1.24.

I imagine higher TWR would help it take off from Liaoning and Shandong, so compared to CATOBAR-only fighters high thrust may be particularly selected for in the design if STOBAR take-off is important.

Mig 29 have empty weight of 11 Tonnes and a thrust of 16.6 tonnes with rd33, for an empty TWR of 1.51. I don't think 1.5 is that much. I think with new materials and manufacturing process, they could achieve better.

 

[Deino]

Guys … can we stick to the topic, which is the J-35 and stop these off topic comparisons with F-35 and Kaan!

 

[Alfa_Particle]

Mig 29 have empty weight of 11 Tonnes and a thrust of 16.6 tonnes with rd33, for an empty TWR of 1.51. I don't think 1.5 is that much. I think with new materials and manufacturing process, they could achieve better.

Considering J-35's size being notably larger and the engines having relatively the same size, then I would say it's impressive.

But I did rounded down some thrust figures and rounded up weight figures while I'm calculating. The exact figure is 1.586, assuming 14.5 in weight a 225.553 combined thrust.

 

[Atomicfrog]

Considering J-35's size being notably larger and the engines having relatively the same size, then I would say it's impressive.

But I did rounded down some thrust figures and rounded up weight figures while I'm calculating. The exact figure is 1.586, assuming 14.5 in weight a 225.553 combined thrust.

Maybe larger in volume because of the internal weapon bay.Empty space don't weight much. Engines will be way better than rd33 too...

 

[Alfa_Particle]

Maybe larger in volume because of the internal weapon bay.Empty space don't weight much. Engines will be way better than rd33 too...

There's also fuel capacity, avionics and more.

Point being 5th Gens will usually be inherently heavier than 4th Gens.

 

[Deino]

Guys ... don't you think these discussions the final "pages" about thrust to weight ratios, dimensions, performances and comparisons to other types are A BIT TOO PREMATURE given that barely anything is known, what is known is mostly based on hear-say and rumours ... and as such we should concentrate on FACTS!

By the way, am I wrong, but as it seems, there are still less prototypes known/confirmed available as the J-20 program had after a similar amount of time. Is this due to OPSEC and we simply haven't seen them or do I miss anything?

 

[Alfa_Particle]

Guys ... don't you think these discussions the final "pages" about thrust to weight ratios, dimensions, performances and comparisons to other types are A BIT TOO PREMATURE given that barely anything is known, what is known is mostly based on hear-say and rumours ... and as such we should concentrate on FACTS!

By the way, am I wrong, but as it seems, there are still less prototypes known/confirmed available as the J-20 program had after a similar amount of time. Is this due to OPSEC and we simply haven't seen them or do I miss anything?

Well, it's good to explore possibilities in absence of absolute certainties, no? We're not taking them with 100% certainty, but it's beneficial to explore them, see how they would play out, as long as it's not very off-topic. Besides, there aren't many facts to concentrate on.

I do feel like they've tightened up their OPSEC this month. Nothing new or explosive is on Chinese platforms lately, as far as I can see. At most they're doing analysis off sat images and papers published.

 

[hamaoka123]

Will the J-35 be used for anything more than a carrier borne fighter? Pardon my ignorance...