J-XY/J-35 carrier-borne fighter thread

[ZeEa5KPul]

After watching the video again I realise I need to clarify a point here: he didn't actually just say "hypersonic weapon" but rather specifically "hypersonic glide vehicle".

Given the dimensions of DF-17's HGV perhaps he's idea is that since they're kind of flat rather than cylindrical the entire weapon bay could be dedicated to carry a single HGV?

That's even more ridiculous. An HGV is unpowered, and launching it from an aircraft traveling at less than Mach 2.5... not very "hypersonic."

The guy's conclusions seem dodgy at best. I find it highly unlikely that the J-XY will have a higher supercruise speed than the J-20, given the J-20's massively more powerful engines and its planform designed specifically to minimize supersonic drag.

 

[Temstar]

That kind of weapon usualy need a booster of some sort to reach hypersonic flight to glide after that.... It could manage to carry the booster and the HGV in the bomb bay the size of j-20 ? Cannot see that... it need a way bigger weapons bay.

WZ-8 doesn't have a booster. I can picture in my head a HGV missile in the form of a miniature WZ-8, with less of it dedicated to the engine (which for a missile can be simply solid fuel motor) and more for the payload.

 

[reservior dogs]

Broadly agree, but there are some very important differences.

The first and most fundamental issue is that AWACS is primarily for fleet defence and will not be used for long range recon. As such, the detection range of AWACS is really not be limiting factor to fleet air strike range like you are suggesting.

With modern satellites, stealthy UAVs, super/hypersonic high altitude recon drones and potentially quasi-space planes all operationally deployed or well on their way to coming online, I think the age where CSGs can expect to be able to reliably ‘disappear’ into the fog of war on deployments are numbered, if not already up.

As such, the range and other core attributes of manned carrier aircraft is going to become much more important. Because as modern recon tech advances, the detection and engagement ranges are going to massively open up in carrier vs carrier engagements.

If your carrier fighters are significantly outranged by your opponents’ then you are immediately at a massive disadvantage because the enemy has the option to stay out of harms way while holding your fleet at risk. It doesn’t matter if they have a KP of zero in spamming conventional AShMs at your fleet, because in doing so they force you to expending naval SAMs that cannot easily be replenished at sea while their strike aircraft can rearm with fresh AShMs at will. Even the most ancient AShMs will get the job done if you got no SAMs left to shoot them down.

It is for this reason I see both the J15 and superbug persisting in the carrier air wings of both Chinese and American carriers for a long time to come. The J15 especially, as it should offer a significant range and load carrying edge over all other carrier capable fighters, thereby potentially giving Chinese carriers a significant range advantage.

Satellites; in the opening rounds that lead up to a carrier on carrier fight, you have to assume that all the finite satellites from both sides will be out of action.

Stealthy UAV; If you know generally the location of the other side, you can send in your stealthy UAV to pinpoint the location, but it is not really used to acquire the other carrier group if there is a lot of uncertainty about the location of the other guy. A radar emitting UAV is no longer stealthy.

Space planes; we will have to see if this comes to be. I think with the current capability, there is a potential for the type-55 to send up micro satellites which will be more useful. Absent the ability to get more height, the AWACS will be the only reliable eye in the sky for both defense and offense.

 

[plawolf]

We don't know J15's range, though. At least I've never seen it claimed by anything remotely resembling a decent source.

All we have to go by is Su-33's range, which isn't really superior.
And just how much better is J15 in range department over Su-33 is, again, an unknown. We can't just pull some figure out of thin air . for example "oh it's surely 30% lighter than su33!" and then muse about possible range and payload advantages.

Wouldn’t you say assuming that the J15 has the same range as the Su33 is exactly the kind of baseless pulling figures out of thin air assumption you are warning against?

 

[Deino]

Wouldn’t you say assuming that the J15 has the same range as the Su33 is exactly the kind of baseless pulling figures out of thin air assumption you are warning against?

Why? I think to assume the J-15 has the same or at least a similar range is a more reasonable approach than to believe such rumours like "oh it's surely 30% lighter than su33 ... and so it must have about 30% more range and payload !".

 

[longmarch]

Why? I think to assume the J-15 has the same or at least a similar range is a more reasonable approach than to believe such rumours like "oh it's surely 30% lighter than su33 ... and so it must have about 30% more range and payload !".

Would J-15T have more range and payload? Or are we assuming that J-15 can carry full payload full fuel tank already?
Su-35 has much longer range than su-30, is that true?
Su-33 is quite old, I would not be surprised if some work can be done to give it more range or payload. Whether those work has been done, I didn't know.

 

[plawolf]

Why? I think to assume the J-15 has the same or at least a similar range is a more reasonable approach than to believe such rumours like "oh it's surely 30% lighter than su33 ... and so it must have about 30% more range and payload !".

I’m sorry, but when did anyone make that 30% more range claim other than as a strawman?

 

[Egg roll]

Does the J35 have autocannon installed on it for close combat situations?

 

[Atomicfrog]

WZ-8 doesn't have a booster. I can picture in my head a HGV missile in the form of a miniature WZ-8, with less of it dedicated to the engine (which for a missile can be simply solid fuel motor) and more for the payload.

We are driving hard off tread bud going down in size augment the drag to volume ratio a lot... Wz-8 is quite big and i would say high-speed and not hypersonic.

 

[anzha]

Does the J35 have autocannon installed on it for close combat situations?

I am 99% sure we have no idea as yet.