J-XX Fighter Aircraft

Re: J-xx

RIght now I don't think China has the potential to make an operational stealth aircraft even on the caliber of the F-117 and this J-xx thing is all a propaganda action to exaggerate strength and hide weakness. Hence there is so little information available- because there is nothing to tell!!!

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The J-xx is quite common name to descripe the new generation of chinese fighters currently in the designboard of the chinese aviation designbureus. It's not a fighter currently being manufactured nor in a near entering manufacture stage like F-35, but a program that is still being developted.
So other than the comon western biased prejudgement, were do you base your claims? In this forum that sort of deliberate flaming isen't well liked so I advice you to give more spesific awnsers when stating something controversial...

Re: J-xx

Americanoilman said:

Hi all im new to this forum.

RIght now I don't think China has the potential to make an operational stealth aircraft even on the caliber of the F-117 and this J-xx thing is all a propaganda action to exaggerate strength and hide weakness. Hence there is so little information available- because there is nothing to tell!!!

The Russians have tried for 20 years and still have not advanced much, why should the Chinese?

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Back when the Soviet Union was still around in 1987-1988, the Soviets were spending 15%-17% of its GDP on the military, or about $250 billion to $300 billion USD.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, the Russian military expenditure has declined dramatically, down to $18 billion to $21 billion USD (2005 est). The result? MiG 1.44... cancelled. Yak-41... cancelled. Yak-44... cancelled. Su-37... cancelled. Ulyanovsk carrier... scrapped.

The Russian economy ($1.58 trillion) and military budget (~$21 billion) today is roughly equal to that of Italy. You can't possibly expect them to compete against the US with $12+ trillion economy and $478 billion military budget. The US spent $28+ billion on R&D for the F-22A plus $34+ billion building them. The latest estimated by US Government Accountability Office is $361 million per F-22A. The program cost for the F-22A alone is equal to 3 years worth of Russian military budget.

Re: J-xx

But that is in USD and not in real money. Yes some materials require foreign import, maybe natural resources to produce a plane, but we need to use real money to really compare. The gap is still big but i dun think is that big

to popeye
well he is explaining how big the difference between Russia and US. I know it is pretty huge, but what i am saying is dollar to dollar term would amplify the gap which makes Russia seems to be unable to develop a stealth plane

Re: J-xx

ahho sez;

But that is in USD and not in real money

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Huh? ahho you are going to have to explain this remark. Just what is real money in reguard to military spending? Please expalin! thanks!

Re: J-xx

Americanoilman said:

Hi all im new to this forum.

RIght now I don't think China has the potential to make an operational stealth aircraft even on the caliber of the F-117 and this J-xx thing is all a propaganda action to exaggerate strength and hide weakness. Hence there is so little information available- because there is nothing to tell!!!

The Russians have tried for 20 years and still have not advanced much, why should the Chinese?

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China isn't Russia.

The Russians at present don't have the economics like the US. Just becuase Russia hasn't doesn't mean China is tied to the hip. I don't know where you come from with that logic since China is not at all relegated to one-step behind the Russians. When the Chinese produce their stealth fighter, it may or may not be up to par with the F-22, but you better believe it'll beat the US in lesser costs. Because one day someone around the world is going to develop the technology that will defeat present stealth advantages and you'll be seeing $360 million plus burning away every time one gets shot down. This war won't be won on the military battlefield.

Re: J-xx

bd popeye said:

ahho sez;
Huh? ahho you are going to have to explain this remark. Just what is real money in reguard to military spending? Please expalin! thanks!

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He's probably referring to currency by official exchange rate vs. PPP.

In the US the two are roughly equal. $1 USD buys $1 USD worth of goods. But in other countries, where goods and services cost less, $1 USD could buy $2-$8 worth of goods & services. This is why people in Singapore goes shopping in Malaysia and Thailand, and the Malay government prefer to pay arms purchase with palm oil (barter).

In Russia the GDP by exchange rate vs. GDP by PPP has a ratio of 1:2. Some analysts would look at this and say, since the Russians can buy twice as much stuff for a dollar, we should double their military expenditure numbers. US DoD, for example, estimates Russian military expenditure at $70 billion USD value, but does not actually claim the Russians spend $70 billion in cash.

That method of calculation works for basic commodities like eggs, pork bellies, cotton, mineral ore, etc. But tend not to work as well for high-end military goods, which are on a totally different cost scale.

Re: J-xx

Americanoilman said:

Hi all im new to this forum.

RIght now I don't think China has the potential to make an operational stealth aircraft even on the caliber of the F-117 and this J-xx thing is all a propaganda action to exaggerate strength and hide weakness. Hence there is so little information available- because there is nothing to tell!!!

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You are welcome. Everyone's opinion is welcome, at least that's my view.

But firstly, all you have seen are just some internet posts, and 99% of them are from Chinese government. In fact, I really hope China does some propaganda about their military issues, because we lack information.

A minor thing is that you are contradicting yourself in just one paragraph: In one sentence you are saying it's propaganda, in another one you are saying there's so little information. If there is propagand, don't you think there should be huge amount of info available, not matter it's fake or not.

Secondly, most of the stuff on the internet about china's military are not authoritive, because A: the Chinese government never releases any info on non-export oriented things, B: the western intel organizations don't bother to clear the truth (it's not their job anyway), they just want to use the confusion.

So, about china's military, trust your own analysis and prepared to be proved wrong. That's the fun, unlike other countries's situation, you just pay and believe in what you are told.

Re: J-xx

Americanoilman said:

Hi all im new to this forum.

RIght now I don't think China has the potential to make an operational stealth aircraft even on the caliber of the F-117 and this J-xx thing is all a propaganda action to exaggerate strength and hide weakness. Hence there is so little information available- because there is nothing to tell!!!

The Russians have tried for 20 years and still have not advanced much, why should the Chinese?

Click to expand...

Don't ever underestimate what Chinese are capable of. Chinese are not inferior to Russians and Chinese are far more ambitious than any of other nation on earth. Difficult yes but impossible No.

Re: J-xx

adeptitus said:

He's probably referring to currency by official exchange rate vs. PPP.

In the US the two are roughly equal. $1 USD buys $1 USD worth of goods. But in other countries, where goods and services cost less, $1 USD could buy $2-$8 worth of goods & services. This is why people in Singapore goes shopping in Malaysia and Thailand, and the Malay government prefer to pay arms purchase with palm oil (barter).

In Russia the GDP by exchange rate vs. GDP by PPP has a ratio of 1:2. Some analysts would look at this and say, since the Russians can buy twice as much stuff for a dollar, we should double their military expenditure numbers. US DoD, for example, estimates Russian military expenditure at $70 billion USD value, but does not actually claim the Russians spend $70 billion in cash.

That method of calculation works for basic commodities like eggs, pork bellies, cotton, mineral ore, etc. But tend not to work as well for high-end military goods, which are on a totally different cost scale.

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Yes but during the Cold War the USSR had a centralised 'command' economy
so did it really matter what the budget was since they could order anything
they wanted from the rest of the economy ?

Also this made it a whole lot more efficient in terms of military procurement
though I'm not saying that it was efficient in other ways.

Re: J-xx

://www.1n0.net/Article/UploadFiles/200603/20060318082049210.jpg
I think this j-14 in the internet should be somewhat model of the next 4generation fighter of china ,some experters predict in 2010 such fighter will form the fighting strength,so China can resist the f-22 of us air force disposed in Guam
other considerings of the developing the next generation figher I think is to balance the air force of the northeasten Asian especially of Japan ,for America is likely to sell F-22 to Japan then the adventage will be held in Japan which is hostile to China .
some reports say that Russia invite China in the developing of the 5 generation ,someone thinks J14 resemble Mig 1.44,that is maybe some tech from Russian