J-20... The New Generation Fighter


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latenlazy

Colonel
No, I am not saying that, trust me.
What I am saying is, I felt its a little premature to show off the piece.

Allow me elaborate. When I look at design, I look at the lineage, and when you look at lineage, you look at the most variants a design can offer - And currently J-10/J-11B seems still fresh off the production/under production line, with almost no variants to speak of. The last fighter that seems to me to be very well understood by the Chinese aviation industry seems to be the J-7 and J-8, with almost hundreds of variations. It shows the level of confidence and understanding in modifying the design because of the thorough understanding and knowledge gain in those design.

Just imagine if you design something, let's say a car, and because its a new design, you are just happy it "works" (magic!) and is afraid modifying it will result in failure - and that's normal in almost every field of engineering/design process. And it took a long time until designers thoroughly understood the principles of the design, that they start really tearing engine again, examine every parts and redesign every part to have next generation design. Along the way, you have hundreds of modification/variation of original design. And this usually starts from the outside - the shell of the design - the body/structure frame of the design. So the car usually get a different look first, while the engines and the innards get change much much later.
Enlighten us as to why this mode of analysis is most effective at determining whether what we're seeing is a viable prototype for production or not. And while you're at it explain how this mode of analysis explains the existence of the J-10, or the F-117.
 

latenlazy

Colonel
I am just curious why the body of J-20 is so smooth, and painted black all over as if its a production run fighter. The body material reminds me of the Anjian "Dark Sword" UCAV presented back in 2007 that's all.

And would any aviation expert shed some light on this? Why is it most of the prototype planes were painted in either dark green or light yellow, and they all seem to be made of different materials too (perhaps those colours are actually the colour of composite material?)

Why is the YF-22 so smooth? It's painted.
 

nameless

Junior Member
No, I am not saying that, trust me.
What I am saying is, I felt its a little premature to show off the piece.

Allow me elaborate. When I look at design, I look at the lineage, and when you look at lineage, you look at the most variants a design can offer - And currently J-10/J-11B seems still fresh off the production/under production line, with almost no variants to speak of. The last fighter that seems to me to be very well understood by the Chinese aviation industry seems to be the J-7 and J-8, with almost hundreds of variations. It shows the level of confidence and understanding in modifying the design because of the thorough understanding and knowledge gain in those design.

Just imagine if you design something, let's say a car, and because its a new design, you are just happy it "works" (magic!) and is afraid modifying it will result in failure - and that's normal in almost every field of engineering/design process. And it took a long time until designers thoroughly understood the principles of the design, that they start really tearing engine again, examine every parts and redesign every part to have next generation design. Along the way, you have hundreds of modification/variation of original design. And this usually starts from the outside - the shell of the design - the body/structure frame of the design. So the car usually get a different look first, while the engines and the innards get change much much later.
Wow what are you talking about? No variants for J10/J11? They dont understand J10/J11? New designs must be the result of hundreds of modifications of past operational aircraft? The key is understanding the scientific concepts behind the aircraft design.
 
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Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
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A BBC report on Secretary Gates visit to China. There's a short blurb on the J-20.... and of all the photos they could use they use the shortened, cut and spliced picture
 

AssassinsMace

Brigadier
I read over at FYJ that now the Koreans are claiming the J-20 was ripped-off from their KF-X program and the majority of Chinese netziens agree.
 

Asymptote

Banned Idiot
the yellow or green are primer paints used by the companies. different companies use different colour paint. it doesnt mean yellow equates a certain material and green another. like i mentioned before from some of the previous photos we can see that one of the j-20 prototypes has exposed yellow panels in the nose and we can also see that the parachute compartment is still painted yellow on the inside. all these points to the fact that CAC gave the J-20 a coat of paint so that it looks presentable as they know that ppl will be taking photos of it and being chinese it has to look good. the j-10 prototype had a white colour paint when it was first revealed and the JH-7 and L-15 were all painted when they were first made public. it doesnt mean that one country has a certain way of presenting prototypes so all other countries must follow-suit, same as with military tech development.

we live in a time of computer simulation and modelling. any defects or design flaws can and will be worked out on the computers - bare in mind that china currently has the fastest super-computer in the world - and the final prototype will be a product of years of ironing out kinks on computers. that is the reason why most planes nowadays do not have many variants. the only reason there are variants now is so that the same plane can fulfill different combat roles, not because there's a problem with it. so by making the assumption that china is still having problems with J-10 and J-11B because there's no variants is flawed and non-congruent with modern day tech development. im quite sure that IF the J-10 and J-11 still had problems the chinese would not be fielding them in the quantity that they currently are.
Your explanation is very succinct and logical. I understand now, Thanks!
 

terrorhunter

Banned Idiot
I read over at FYJ that now the Koreans are claiming the J-20 was ripped-off from their KF-X program and the majority of Chinese netziens agree.
koreans also claim that chinese new year and mid-autumn festival belongs to them too.

from another angle: KF-X is still in design phase, finances and consortium still getting ironed out, no known working prototype yet.
J-20, working prototype, high-speed taxi trials conducted, flight test imminent, 3rd and 4th prototypes under construction.

so few years down the road when the KF-X is made public and if it looks like the J-20, can i say its a rip-off of the J-20? i mean the J-20 came first right?

sheesh.
 

GreenestGDP

Junior Member
Re: J-20... What if -- T-50 is way better than J-20... Fantastic

... ...
I remember an American General being quoted are saying the Pak-fa was a "russian copy'" of the F-22. Any idiot could tell you that they are completely different aircraft, and calling it a copy is a serious dis-service to the Russian PAK-FA T-50.
... ...
^^^ Tiny correction. :D


Long_Term_National_Security is always way, way, way more important than Short_Term_National_Pride.


What if -- Russian tech is ahead of China tech?
Hallelujah!!

What if -- T-50 is way better than J-20?

That is FANTASTIC!! -- More and more Power to Russia.
Why? -- Because, China and Russia are mutually protecting each other backyard.


What truly matter are for China to work toward ... ...

1) On full scale deployment -- J-20 tech is better than F-22 tech.

2) On full scale deployment -- the next J-XX (J-30) tech is way ahead of Bald Eagle 6thGen XF_Fighter tech.
 
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