J-20... The New Generation Fighter

According to a post on another forum ( itself quoting a poster from the chinese internet-CMF forum ), it is claimed that J-20 might have had its first flight at 1.28( AM or PM ?) on December 31st.

Here's a quote with the google translation:

继上次发了一篇中国第4代机早已试飞今天我再透露点消息昨天晚上零晨
1：28 Following last made a 4th generation machine has long been China's first test flight today, I again point the message last night said the early morning 1:28

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Can this be confirmed ? Thanks.

mack8 said:

According to a post on another forum ( itself quoting a poster from the chinese internet-CMF forum ), it is claimed that J-20 might have had its first flight at 1.28( AM or PM ?) on December 31st.

Here's a quote with the google translation:



Can this be confirmed ? Thanks.

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First flight at dark? Nah, the time is when the poster put the info up, but no saying when the time of day was the first flight? And seems that the Chinese side rather quiet about it...of course, no-pic-no-proof.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Scratch said:

I will admit that the division between the two things is not as clear as I probably made it out to be.

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That's right. DEAD is a subset of SEAD, not a separate mission, as I have been saying this whole time. And you should scroll down all the way to the bottom of the article and read what the DOD thinks about non-DEAD SEAD ops. And also check out the success rates of SEAD missions in various combat theaters the US has been involved in.

Re: New Generation Fighter

bd popeye said:

Wait a minute!! How is this aircraft the Raptors peer?

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Well Roger604 already knows this aircraft is the equal of the F-22 in most aspects and superior in others, thereby allowing the J-20 to kick some serious F-22 ass. So obviously it must be true.

In truth, he is probably the only one on this site that thinks the J-20 can match or beat the F-22 without even knowing a single damn thing about its real capabilities after having inflated some article by Pop or Sweetman (forgot which) beyond all bounds of reason. This kind of fanboy fantasizing is just unnecessary static noise in a reasonable discussion about this aircraft.

New pics

Re: New Generation Fighter

ztz99g said:

Well Roger604 already knows this aircraft is the equal of the F-22 in most aspects and superior in others, thereby allowing the J-20 to kick some serious F-22 ass. So obviously it must be true.

In truth, he is probably the only one on this site that thinks the J-20 can match or beat the F-22 without even knowing a single damn thing about its real capabilities after having inflated some article by Pop or Sweetman (forgot which) beyond all bounds of reason. This kind of fanboy fantasizing is just unnecessary static noise in a reasonable discussion about this aircraft.

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For China that has booming and thriving civilian electronic industry, it is not a stretch of imagination that they also have inventive defense electronics . So to just dismiss chinese capability as fanboy fantasy and static noise is not warranted


Here what Rafael Smith has to say about the state of Chinese defense electronic industry
(1) Chinese Defence Products Today: State-of-the Art

Chinese defence products were once thought of as being moderately capable copies of previous-generation hardware that contained attributes of Russian, European and Israeli designs. Some of those bloodlines can still be seen in their designs, but the products now being seen at an expo like CIDEX show that Chinese firms have capabilities that approach first world industrial, state-of-the-art levels of sophistication.

In the 1990s, when the Russian defence was in danger of drying up and closing its doors due to an almost complete collapse in any funding from their own government, it was China that saved the day. China bought billions in military hardware from Russia, but it also sent its engineers, designers and technicians to study inside of Russian industry to learn how the weapons it was purchasing had been developed in the first place.

This transfer of technological know-how, plus some enormous investments by the Chinese military into its state-owned industries (what more than one Russian has referred to as “uncontrolled and rampant modernisation”) has produced a defence electronics industry that far outstrips the size and capacity of that which existed in Russia when Chinese industry first began their cooperation with Moscow in the early 1990s.

Today the former students (the Chinese) have become the masters. Chinese industry now has the ability to produce components that the Russian electronics industry (after almost two decades of no investment by their government) is no longer capable of either designing or manufacturing. The initial failure rates on the production of transmit/receive (T/R) modules for the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radars being designed for the Mikoyan MiG-35 and the Sukhoi T-50/PAK-FA 5th-generation fighter, for example, were so high that it would have bankrupted any western firm involved in a similar programme.

Not surprisingly, this year’s CIDEX show saw groups of Russian specialists going through the halls and looking for components that they could source out of China to be utilised in Russian-designed weapon systems. Russian specialists will point out that they are now at a huge disadvantage to the Chinese in two very significant respects.

One is that the commitment by the central government in resources to the defence electronics sector is both sustained and serious. “They can take a field where there is nothing but flat land and wild grass,” said one Russian company representative, “and the next thing you know there is a full-blown factory or design centre there turning out a world-class product.”

So, do we think that the first flight will be publicized, or do we think that the Chinese will wait until theyr're sure of a successful display?

Is it typical for a test-platform to looks so much like a finished product?

I'm both impressed, and somewhat intrigued, by the differences in appearance between these first pics of the J-20 and those of the T-50. There seem to be no visual indicators of construction on the J-20 at all.

Could this simply be an expression of China's growing pride, or of Russia's declining pride?

Re: New Generation Fighter

Hendrik_2000 said:

For China that has booming and thriving civilian electronic industry, it is not a stretch of imagination that they also have inventive defense electronics . So to just dismiss chinese capability as fanboy fantasy and static noise is not warranted

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OMG. Maybe you can tell me how ANY of what you just posted leads to the conclusion that the J-20 meets or exceeds the capability of the F-22. In fact NONE of what you just posted can support such a claim. I do not claim that the J-20 cannot (theoretically) match the F-22, rather that we know next to nothing about it and therefore cannot make any substantive predictions about its effectiveness vis-a-vis the F-22. The only people who think my position is unreasonable are the internet fanboy fantasizers on this forum and others who believe with zero evidence that this thing is ready to sweep the F-22 from the sky. Don't get ahead of yourself. Wait for more info before making any more grandiose and unsupported claims.

Re: My first J-20 video. Try it!

Quickie said:

I don't think the firewall extends out of China

Youtube have issue with the music!

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Youtube is blocked in Pakistan, but a forumite was able to see the video by using this link:

If that doesn't work, someone else suggested trying:

[video=youtube;1EBztMJBhAs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EBztMJBhAs[/video]

The video has 316 views and four "likes." I don't think it's blocked because of the music. Keep trying please!