J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

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Martian

Senior Member
Re: China's Axisymmetric Vectoring Exhaust Nozzle (e.g. TVC) technology

China possesses indigenous TVC (i.e. thrust vector control) technology. Is it installed on the J-20 stealth fighter prototype? I don't know. However, it is reasonable to assume that China will install it on the production version of its premier fighter.

Thank you to HouShanghai for the following information:

Chinese TVC newslink:
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(Look carefully at 29 min. 22 sec. to 29 min. 27 sec. in the video)

s200M.jpg

China's Axisymmetric Vectoring Exhaust Nozzle (e.g. TVC) technology

Getting back to my original point, Jane's articles inform us that China has been working on TVC technology for roughly ten years. The J-20 will not achieve Initial Operating Capability until 2018. It is reasonable to expect that China will install its indigenous aircraft engines with TVC by 2018.
 

Hyperwarp

Captain
Re: China's Axisymmetric Vectoring Exhaust Nozzle (e.g. TVC) technology

China possesses indigenous TVC (i.e. thrust vector control) technology. Is it installed on the J-20 stealth fighter prototype? I don't know. However, it is reasonable to assume that China will install it on the production version of its premier fighter.

Thank you to HouShanghai for the following information:

Chinese TVC newslink:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(Look carefully at 29 min. 22 sec. to 29 min. 27 sec. in the video)

[IMG*]http://i.imgur.com/s200M.jpg[/IMG]
China's Axisymmetric Vectoring Exhaust Nozzle (e.g. TVC) technology

You mean the attached image?

Thats the General Electric AVEN for the F-16. Checkout the F-16 VISTA/MATV videos below :

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: 2 min onwards
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: Here is another link

Now this
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is an actual TVC testbed. It seem the photo of former Pres. Jiang Zemin was taken from a video where the nozzle moves in any direction controlled by that joystick
 

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dingyibvs

Senior Member
So, I like to take a step back and take a wider looks at things sometimes, so I've been thinking about how the recent developments of the PLA can be used in an integrated warfare situation. Looking at the geopolitical side, it seems like China has focused on stabilizing its borders to the west, while leaving more room for maneuvers to the east. This in effect reduces the need of a strong army, allowing the PLA to focus more of their resources on the Navy and the Air Force. Another consequence of this strategy is that any conflict involving China in the foreseeable future will likely involve major naval engagements(Korea, Taiwan, Diaoyu, Vietnam, even India to a lesser extent), likely with direct or indirect participation of the U.S. navy. Thus, one of the most pressing issues facing the PLA would be how to effectively neutralize by far the most powerful navy on earth.

Now, looking at the history of the PLA, it seems that they've been generally pretty practical and realize their limitations. Since it's unlikely that the Chinese navy and air force can catch up to American levels in the near future, they must be looking for more innovative, more asymmetric methods of fighting them should the need occur. Looking at the J-20 and the DF-21D, it seems to me that the best way for realizing that goal would be an all-out sensor-denial campaign.

The J-20, though a very advanced platform, will likely still encounter great difficulty penetrating American CVG's, and there are some serious doubts over whether it can even carry AShM's. The DF-21D, though a menacing weapon, will likely still have trouble scoring direct hits on American capital ships. However, a BVR missile equipped J-20 should have a good shot of slipping through the periphery of the defense and establish essential no go zones against American AWACS, while staying mostly out of range of ship-borne weapons and holding their own against American fighter jets. The DF-21D, on the other hand, could use airburst weapons raining thousands of pellets onto American ships(not just CV's). This won't sink them or even damage the flight deck much, but it may very well knock out most of the exposed sensors and communication links. This eliminates the need to score direct hits on carriers and thus drastically decrease the necessity of precise and accurate terminal guidance.

The result would be a severe disruption in the highly touted and prized integrated fighting network of the USN, dramatically limiting their freedom of operation as they will be restricted to operating close to friendly shores under the umbrella of protective land-based platforms. IMO, with the advancement of long-range precision weaponry, the future of warfare will be based on sensors and sensor-denial, and the J-20 and the DF-21D can serve as great platforms in such a war.
 

Anton Gregori

New Member
The result would be a severe disruption in the highly touted and prized integrated fighting network of the USN, dramatically limiting their freedom of operation as they will be restricted to operating close to friendly shores under the umbrella of protective land-based platforms. IMO, with the advancement of long-range precision weaponry, the future of warfare will be based on sensors and sensor-denial, and the J-20 and the DF-21D can serve as great platforms in such a war.

I think you're on the right track, but I would look at it the other way. How does the J-20 help China maintain air superiority (and keep out carrier groups) within about 1000km of the mainland? That's the combat radius of an F-35, so if you can do that, you can prevent the U.S. from intervening in any decisive way in a conflict with Taiwan. They can still hit some targets with long range missiles, but not enough to really make a difference.

I would think that, in this case, it's not really about penetrating the defenses. It would be enough to avoid detection by patrolling F-22s and F-35s, locate the carrier group, and then send back targeting information for DF-21Ds.

How close do you need to get to a carrier group to get accurate targeting information from an irst? (Assuming you don't want to turn on your radar). Certainly 50km should be sufficient. So if the J-20 can manage that, then China is in pretty good shape.
 

challenge

Banned Idiot
majority of stealth aircraft such as F-117.B-2 and F-22 target the X-band RF band, but there's doubt against low RF radar such as UHF/VHF band. USAF remain tight lip on this issue.
during the desert srom the present of iragi nanjing UHF radar initially raise fear that the radar could detect the F-117,but the radar use analog computer and lack sophisticate signal processing,in fact ,one nanjing radar was destroyed by F-117.
but new generation radar operate in low RF with advance signal processing could in fact able to detect stealth aircraft.
B-2 bomber carry radar cancellation EW system,according to blogger the wave form operate very much like SAR waveform,design to target low frequency band.
T-50 carry two conformal L-band antenna in each wind design to attack stealth aircraft.
wonder if J-20 will carry similiar conformal radar.
 

Mashan

New Member
By now people should have learned, don't doubt the ability of China developing new technology if they decided to do so. Based on all the experts around the world, PLA should still be fighting with chopstick riding on rickshaw :)
 

Centrist

Junior Member
Journalism takes another sad climb into the deepest depths of ignorance....

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(Newsroom America) -- A U.S. lawmaker says China got the technology to build its first known stealth fighter from Russia, adding that Beijing remains "a concern" in a dangerous world.
"My understanding is that they built it on information that they received from Russia, from a Russian plane, that they were able to copy," said House Armed Services Chairman Buck McKeon, R-Calif.
McKeon said he hoped to be able to "hear more" on the issue from Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, who arrived in China for a visit Jan. 10, shortly after a test-flight of the Chinese plane, which is desinated the J-20.
Gates was in China when state media published photographs of the aircraft in flight in the southwest part of the country.
McKeon made his statements after being asked if China were able to obtain stealth technology through cyber-espionage.
"We need to be looking at China, we need to be looking at North Korea, we need to be looking at Iran," said McKeon, who is skeptical of Gates' plans to reduce military spending.
"That's what really concerns me when I look at the cuts, the potential cuts, that they're talking about for the defense budget. This is not a safe world," he said.
© 2010 Newsroom America.
 

no_name

Colonel
Could the revealing of J-20 on Gates' visit to china a subtle attempt to isolate Gates from the other political powers of the US and causing a political fault line to develop - making it harder for him to push further cuts and moderation, and undermine confidence in his assessment and contribution to china policy in the US?
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Could the revealing of J-20 on Gates' visit to china a subtle attempt to isolate Gates from the other political powers of the US and causing a political fault line to develop - making it harder for him to push further cuts and moderation, and undermine confidence in his assessment and contribution to china policy in the US?

Thats a possibility, but Im under the impression that Gates was going to retire soon
 
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