J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

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KYli

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By JEREMY PAGE

BEIJING—Images and witness accounts posted online Tuesday appeared to show that China's stealth fighter prototype had made its first test flight, even as Robert Gates, the U.S. Defense Secretary who has downplayed China's stealth aircraft capability, was meeting Chinese civilian leaders in Beijing.
The J-20, which has been undergoing runway tests for the last two weeks or so, took off from an airstrip at the Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute just before 1 p.m. local time and flew for about 20 minutes, according to several witness accounts posted by Chinese bloggers.

Photographs of the twin-engine plane in flight appeared on several unofficial Chinese defense-related websites, which have also posted dozens of still and video images of the J-20 making the runway tests over the last couple weeks.

Accounts of Tuesday's flight couldn't immediately be directly verified.

China's Defense Ministry, Air Force and the Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute have all declined to comment on previous J-20 images, and their spokespeople were not immediately available for further comment Tuesday.

Asked about the test flight at a routine briefing Tuesday, Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Hong Lei didn't confirm or deny it had taken place. But he said that "as technology develops, and in accordance with the needs of national defense, it is natural for countries to upgrade their weapons equipment. The development of China's weapons equipment is completely based on the needs of its own security, and it is meant to protect China's sovereignty, security and territorial integrity. It is not aimed at any country or specific target."

Chinese authorities, who routinely delete politically sensitive material and detain those who produce it, have allowed the J-20 images to be circulated, in what military experts say is a clear sign that the People's Liberation Army wanted them made public.

The images and accounts of the apparent test flight Tuesday were also re-produced by xinhuanet.com, the more commercial arm of the state-run Xinhua news agency, and by huanqiu.com, the website of the state-run Global Times newspaper.

The images suggest that China is making faster-than-expected progress in developing a potential rival to the U.S. F-22—currently the world's only fully operational stealth fighter.

The timing of the test flight also appears to be designed to send a clear message that China is pressing ahead with its military modernization program despite growing concerns about it among the U.S. and its Asian allies.

That message undercuts the symbolism of Mr. Gates' visit, which is designed to smooth military relations ahead of a state visit to the U.S. next week by Chinese President Hu Jintao.

Mr. Gates arrived in Beijing Sunday on a three-day mission to deepen and stabilize military exchanges that China has repeatedly suspended for political reasons, most recently in January 2010 over U.S. arms sales to Taiwan.

But China's military appears to be doing the bare minimum to revive military ties and ensure Mr. Hu's visit goes smoothly, while at the same time showcasing its growing firepower before a domestic and international audience.

On Monday, Mr. Gates' Chinese counterpart, Gen. Liang Guanglie rebuffed a U.S. proposal for a clear timetable of deeper strategic defence talks, and made it clear that it would suspend military ties again if the U.S. sold more arms to Taiwan.

As word of Tuesday's test flight was surfacing Tuesday, Mr. Gates was holding meetings with Mr. Hu and Yang Jiechi, China's Foreign Minister.

During brief remarks together in front of reporters, neither Mr. Hu nor Mr. Gates mentioned the J-20. Mr. Hu said that the U.S. defense secretary's visit "will be very helpful in promoting mutual understanding and trust, and facilitate improvement and development of military-to-military relations between our two countries."

Mr. Gates thanked the Chinese leader and expressed "appreciation for the extraordinary hospitality of my Chinese hosts during this visit," which he said was helping advance the "long-term improvement" in the relationship between the U.S. and the Chinese military.

Pentagon officials had suggested that China's civilian leaders were more anxious than their military colleagues to stabilize defense relations. But even if that was the case, Tuesday's meetings have now been upstaged by the apparent test flight.

The message for Mr. Gates is also the more pointed as it was he who cut funding for the F-22 in 2009, predicting that China would not have any such planes by 2020 and only a handful by 2025.

A few months later, He Weirong, the deputy head of China's air force, announced that China's first stealth fighters were about to undergo test flights and would be deployed in "eight or 10 years."

U.S. defense and intelligence officials now say they expect China to start deploying the aircraft by around 2018.
 

Martian

Senior Member
Leveling the military arms race

This is an exciting milestone for China's military aviation. The development and successful flight of China's J-20 stealth fighter will enable China to keep potential aggressors away from her coastline. The era of foreign imperialism and coercion is coming to an end. This is a great achievement for everyone that believes in world peace.
 

Centrist

Junior Member
Maya any info on these engines? I can't imagine they are anything but WS-10s with different nozzles. Is there increased thrust also? Why build an identical prototype with a Russian engine....that just baffles me.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Maya any info on these engines? I can't imagine they are anything but WS-10s with different nozzles. Is there increased thrust also? Why build an identical prototype with a Russian engine....that just baffles me.

The prototype flown without afterburner unlike the J-10S, else we should be able to tell more.
 

kickars

Junior Member
Why build an identical prototype with a Russian engine....that just baffles me.
Well, WS-10 series engines only entered service very recently. However, China has been using AL-31 series engines for nearly 20 years. So, it's really not that hard to understand why they are using two different types of engines for the two prototypes we've seen in the past few weeks. Of course, they will always use WS-10 equipped J-20 for its first flight (as seen today's first flight) and all the future official coverages. And IF anything goes 'wrong', at least there's another J-20 with two good old AL-31s waiting for duty (at the end of the day, neither engines would be use for the production model). So that the whole project can go on without much delay. Plus, for the public there's only 'ONE' 2001, right...
 

dingyibvs

Junior Member
Well, WS-10 series engines only entered service very recently. However, China has been using AL-31 series engines for nearly 20 years. So, it's really not that hard to understand why they are using two different types of engines for the two prototypes we've seen in the past few weeks. Of course, they will always use WS-10 equipped J-20 for its first flight (as seen today's first flight) and all the future official coverages. And IF anything goes 'wrong', at least there's another J-20 with two good old AL-31s waiting for duty (at the end of the day, neither engines would be use for the production model). So that the whole project can go on without much delay. Plus, for the public there's only 'ONE' 2001, right...

At least the nozzles of this 2001 looks different from the WS-10's, so it's possible that it's an uprated engine and may just be fitted on the first batches of production models. Afterall, a WS-10G with 150+ kN of thrust is right up the alley of the F-119.
 

dingyibvs

Junior Member
Big, high res pics :D

129474638840915.jpg

129474638234026.jpg
 

kickars

Junior Member
At least the nozzles of this 2001 looks different from the WS-10's, so it's possible that it's an uprated engine and may just be fitted on the first batches of production models. Afterall, a WS-10G with 150+ kN of thrust is right up the alley of the F-119.
Well, the problem is that the whole WS-10G (150+ KN) theory is based on some Chinese military fans guess and productions. We can all agree those two engines should be some sort of WS-10s (it's the only 100+ KN production engine China has at the moment) .

Since this isn't a production plane, those could be any kinds of WS-10 as long as they are reliable enough. Or they may just even be some normal production WS-10s with certain modifications to suit this specific plane for all the tests need to be carried out.

IMO, they wouldn't put any prototype or untested engines any where near J-20 at this moment.
 

70092

Junior Member
Well, the problem is that the whole WS-10G (150+ KN) theory is based on some Chinese military fans guess and productions. We can all agree those two engines should be some sort of WS-10s (it's the only 100+ KN production engine China has at the moment) .

Since this isn't a production plane, those could be any kinds of WS-10 as long as they are reliable enough. Or they may just even be some normal production WS-10s with certain modifications to suit this specific plane for all the tests need to be carried out.

IMO, they wouldn't put any prototype or untested engines any where near J-20 at this moment.

Judging by its nozzle, it should not be a standard WS-10, however there is no evidence to show that the WS-10 modifications on J-20 can deliver any higher thrust (130-135KN with afterburner) than a standard WS-10.

They may just modify the WS-10 such that it can incorprate advanced flight control system required for a standard 5th generation fighter and change the nozzle to meet the stealth requirement.

Another possibility is that they have fitted a WS-15's core engine into the external hull of the WS-10 etc, since the core engine (which is a turbine jet itself) of WS-15 has passed all necessary tests and become quite mature, so there is a low possiblity that they fit a WS-15 core engine into a WS-10 hull like the way how americans get their YF22's engines.
 
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