J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

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MiG-29

Banned Idiot
If the single block here is the engine question the most I can say is the status quo that WS-15 is said to be ready by 2015, probably a few years after that as schedules inevitably slip.



I'm not particularly familiar with russian engine developments unfortunately so I can't comment on that, but I will say that the US will probably not fly a 6th generation fighter until beyond 2020. I don't think the real seeds for a 6th gen plane will emerge until beyond 2020 either.

And yeah what I meant by the whole 2017 thing is the full J-20 package with IOC as opposed to J-20 minus WS-15 IOC.



Yes, all the more reason I have to doubt the idea they would not emphasise agility on the J-20...
I disagree, the US is already building their fourth stealth fighter AKA F-35, it is a well documented fighter, China has already a J-20 and Russia the T-50, the Russians and Americans are developing airborne lasers and the US has a military budget 10 times the one of Russia and six times the one of China, stealth technology is now in 2011 already common in Europe, China, Japan, South Korea, Russia, the F-22 flew in 1997 as a prototype and 1990 as tech demostrator, in 2020 they will have a sixth generation fighter.
and at least 800 F-35 plus near 200 F-22 while China and Russia will barely get 100 J-20s if they are lucky and 100 T-50s.
The fact the F-35 is an international program shows the US is ahead in new projects because they are sharing some Stealth technologies
 

johnqh

Junior Member
Agility is actually a very important aspect of PLAAF's air doctrine. Even the J-8II interceptor was capable of decent (for a third generation aircraft) low and medium air manoeuvres. This probably stems from the favourable performance of the relatively low tech but agile fighters like the J-5 and J-6 against the F-4s and F-104s in the 60s.
Although a lot of Chinese do not like J-8II, it is actually a very agile fighter. PLAAF considered importing Mirage-2000, and several topic pilots test-flew it. The conclusion is, they were very impressed by Mirage's flight control and avionics, Mirage's flight performance is not that much better than J-8II.

We like to say J-8II is a 2.5G fighter. It's performance is not as bad as some people thing.

Comparing J-20 and F-22 is like comparing J-8II and F/A-18. J-8II is way longer than F/A-18, and has worse engines. However, J-8II actually is lighter.

I am trying to make my point: You can be an armchair aircraft designer, but be aware that no matter how much "knowledge" you have, you are still just an armchair designer. Another way to say it: "A little knowledge is dangerous".
 

HKSDU

Junior Member
what about boundary layer? The J-20 has a larger cross section and a longer fuselage body, i know for you it does not translate into area but for it does for air, more area exposed more radar signature, more drag.

Example F-35 and J-20 i know you will claim the J-20 is different but basicly both are the same type of aircraft seen frontally, however the J-20 is larger, this means more drag and a larger radar signature.
The F-22 has also a smaller area exposed to air and a shorter body fuselage so then times area in the equation will mean more area exposed.




Then the J-20 needs more thrust due to a larger body and heavier weight, unless it has engines like the F-119, F-135 or the new Russian T50 or I129 the J-20 won`t reach the same performance
I see a flaw in your thinking. You think that more area equals more radar signature. So your saying that a smaller Mig-21 has a smaller RCS than an B-2, cause the B-2 is larger? Then what definition is stealth to you then?

Another thing, you have no idea how much the J-20 weighs, how big it actually is, its capabilities and performance, nor do you know how much thrust the engine outputs.
 

siegecrossbow

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
Although a lot of Chinese do not like J-8II, it is actually a very agile fighter. PLAAF considered importing Mirage-2000, and several topic pilots test-flew it. The conclusion is, they were very impressed by Mirage's flight control and avionics, Mirage's flight performance is not that much better than J-8II.

We like to say J-8II is a 2.5G fighter. It's performance is not as bad as some people thing.

Comparing J-20 and F-22 is like comparing J-8II and F/A-18. J-8II is way longer than F/A-18, and has worse engines. However, J-8II actually is lighter.

I am trying to make my point: You can be an armchair aircraft designer, but be aware that no matter how much "knowledge" you have, you are still just an armchair designer. Another way to say it: "A little knowledge is dangerous".
I wouldn't exactly say that it is "very agile" but it was certainly agile for a 3rd generation fighter. The JH-7 was said to be as capable as a J-8 in a dogfight though.
 

Engineer

Major
And yeah what I meant by the whole 2017 thing is the full J-20 package with IOC as opposed to J-20 minus WS-15 IOC.
It would seem that WS-15 might be fitted next year, so a full package J-20 by 2015 isn't farfetch. Beside, J-20 won't be in IOC without WS-15.
 
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Engineer

Major
Vortices shed by canards or LERXs do burst,

If you position the canards farther from the wing the ability of increasing lift reduces, plus buffeting increases, on the Eurofighter after the canard you can see a strake just behind the cockpit canopy to try to fix that

On the J-20 the wing has a LERX to do the same fuction.

The F-22 avoids that by using thrust vectoring
This still does not support your conclusion that J-20's aerodynamic center is behind the center-of-gravity in anyway. Nice try.
 

Bltizo

Moderator
Staff member
We like to say J-8II is a 2.5G fighter. It's performance is not as bad as some people thing.

Comparing J-20 and F-22 is like comparing J-8II and F/A-18. J-8II is way longer than F/A-18, and has worse engines. However, J-8II actually is lighter.
The thing is that J-20 isn't way longer than F-22 vs J-8II and F-18C... proportionally.

It would seem that WS-15 might be fitted next year, so a full package J-20 by 2015 isn't farfetch. Beside, J-20 won't be IOC without WS-15.
Wow really? I don't think we've even received news that WS-15 has been tested on the Il-76 testbed yet...?
Unless they're going to test on Il-76 and J-20 at the same time? :confused:
 
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