So if two person J-20 was not an order from PLAAF and kinda experimental aircraft, we will see it developed to the real model? Or the technogy progressed so fast that most of the things are now in J-20A, besides the second pilot?
J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII
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At present level, EW certainly needs more than one crew per aircraft. So, if the PLAAF wants an EW platform on a 5th-gen fighter platform, yeah.
Otherwise, they can do with the J-20B like how they are doing with at least one of the J-16s since 2021 at least:
Hello, Mihaly... but on a 5th-gen fighter! XD
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CAC’s thinking was to use the twin seater to develop technologies and concepts, so that whenever the PLA was ready to formalize a program they’d already have solutions they could deploy. The way Yankee and Shilao put it was that the twin seater is in between a demonstrator and a prototype. It’s probable that the PLA is serious about something along the lines of a twin seater but hasn’t committed to it yet, and CAC is getting ahead of the curve a bit on behest of the PLA. It’s probable that what they really want is an early start on the drone control fighter concept that will likely be incorporated into the 6th gen fighter and the J-20 twin seater is just a stepping stone.
They also used the twin seater to start testing major design and production changes they were making for the 205X series.
Related to that point, it sounds like the reason the new version of the J-20 (not sure whether to call it A or B right now) doesn’t have TVC with the WS-15 is because the engine’s thrust improvements plus the other changes to the 205X series brings so much new capability that either CAC or the PLA or both want to take some time to test the plane out and really understand what they want and need for TVC development (which they’re adamant *will* happen). My guess is this may just mean that even if 2052’s WS-15 doesn’t have TVC a future 205X airframe might include it. It may also mean that the 205X series won’t have TVC and there will be a future iteration (say a 206X) that will include TVC.
One other anecdote about the WS-15 in this episode is that Shilao and Yankee referred to it as a TW 11 engine. They didn’t really elaborate since it was a very passing remark as they were segueing into some other point.
One other takeaway I’ve gotten out of this episode is that it sounds like we should be expecting a whole lot of J-20s. One of the main subtexts of their conversation seems to be “change your expectation from this plane is precious to this plane is commonplace”. The PLA seems to have concluded that the whole fighter force needs to have some experience with this plane to develop operational knowledge and familiarity with the new technology.
This came up in the video as well and they said instead of thinking about this plane is for EW or drone controller the correct answer is probably "all of the above". Being that this is an experimental aircraft and not created with a specific mission in mind all the reasons you can imagine for a twin seat 5th gen plane, plus some you can't will likely be tested on this aircraft to see if they're good ideas.
Oh and we seemingly got confirmation more or less that the WS-15 is *not* built around the R-79. Shilao and Yankee basically imply that the design may have been studied and worked on in the 90s and that its designers were almost certainly consulted as part of the broader efforts to pick up Soviet technology to assist with China’s own engine development, but ultimately Soviet era engines didn’t have good enough T:W ratios even if they had high thrust.
They included a funny anecdote about how Russian and Ukrainian scientists and engineers would basically spell out to their Chinese counterparts that they could buy the technology and not control the IP or they could just pay scientists and engineers “consulting fees” and get a crash course on all these designs and then control their own IP and development process.
They included a funny anecdote about how Russian and Ukrainian scientists and engineers would basically spell out to their Chinese counterparts that they could buy the technology and not control the IP or they could just pay scientists and engineers “consulting fees” and get a crash course on all these designs and then control their own IP and development process.
No, EW can absolutely be done by one crew member, it's just that the requirements for what constitutes "EW" in one age versus another, and in terms of the expectations for the host aircraft to survive XYZ combat environment or XYZ distance from enemy, is different.
If the PLA do go for the twin seat J-20, it's not because a single seat J-20 can't do EW (or for that matter, drone command), but because they want a twin seat J-20 with a second human being that can do all of it even better than a single seater can in more demanding environments.
Also, in the case of the J-16 AI testbed, we don't really know what the AI is intended for. Some have assumed it's to replace the rear seat pilot but that is a rather simplistic assumption, and even with more automation of the rear crew member it doesn't necessarily mean that it removes the benefits of a rear crew member to the degree they can be removed.
In under a week, we've had a momentous maiden dual WS-15 flight, a rethink of the J-20 variant naming and more insight into the background and purpose of the twin-seater. A truly incredible time to be a PLA watcher
Thrust to Weight(ratio) of 11?
Yup.
Do you know where this rumor/claim (WS-15 based on R-79) comes from? I don't remember it.
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