J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

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Blitzo

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so this is better than current EOTS equipped in J-20A .. ? means its newer generation EOTS

Doesn't EOTS on J-20A already provide air to surface capabilities? The paper is about an improvement to enable high resolution in wide area in the same way as "Advanced EOTS" for F-35 block 4. I believe this new EOTS is the equivalent to LM's "Advanced EOTS".

The paper quoted this link from LM where it shows two video clips of the their "Advanced EOTS".

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View attachment 113856


Yes. The key objective is to enable high resolution in wide-area reconnaissance mode (as high as staring mode) by scanning and stiching in real time. The earlier generation only reaches high resolution in staring mode by telephoto lense. In wide area mode, wide angle lense is used on the same sensor leading to lower resolution (same pixel count on a large field of view). The new EOTS uses the telephoto lense for wide area by introducing a scanning mirror. Each frame covers the whole sensor and the frames are stiched in real time creating a larg image of high resolution.

View attachment 113857


I'll answer both together.

So, first of all I think the term "EOTS" is a very bad one to use generically.

EOTS is the name for the AAQ-40 which is on F-35's chin -- but people have been using it as a name for all types of electro optic sensors with low observable faceted housings on an aircraft's chin. Not ideal.


I have consistently used the term "EO IRST" for J-20's system on its chin, i.e." Electro Optic Infra Red Search and Track" as that is a more general and generic term as we don't know its actual name.

Technically speaking, the kind of system that EOTS/AAQ-40 is, means that it is a type of EO IRST.


To answer both of your questions -- in the case of J-20, its EO IRST has an opaque rear aspect, and the actual sensor itself likely isn't designed to be able to rotate to the rear or rear-ventral sector. This somewhat makes sense as it is primarily an air to air fighter meaning the frontal and frontal/ventral/side aspects are the most important.
lZndClQ.jpeg



OTOH, the AAQ-40 on F-35 has a full 360 degree sector transparent housing, which is important to enable the sensor to cover all aspects, and that is particularly important for surveilling and targeting ground targets as your aircraft needs to be able to fly circular orbits over a target including to do so during the egress as you leave the target.
Dd59h1w.jpeg



That said, a 360 degree aspect housing is also useful for air to air roles because it still lets you keep a track on aerial targets in the rear/rear-ventral aspect if needed, so it isn't a surprise if J-20 gets a newer EO IRST in future with a transparent 360 degree housing. It doesn't necessarily mean it will have an air to ground targeting role.
 

siegecrossbow

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I'll answer both together.

So, first of all I think the term "EOTS" is a very bad one to use generically.

EOTS is the name for the AAQ-40 which is on F-35's chin -- but people have been using it as a name for all types of electro optic sensors with low observable faceted housings on an aircraft's chin. Not ideal.


I have consistently used the term "EO IRST" for J-20's system on its chin, i.e." Electro Optic Infra Red Search and Track" as that is a more general and generic term as we don't know its actual name.

Technically speaking, the kind of system that EOTS/AAQ-40 is, means that it is a type of EO IRST.


To answer both of your questions -- in the case of J-20, its EO IRST has an opaque rear aspect, and the actual sensor itself likely isn't designed to be able to rotate to the rear or rear-ventral sector. This somewhat makes sense as it is primarily an air to air fighter meaning the frontal and frontal/ventral/side aspects are the most important.
lZndClQ.jpeg



OTOH, the AAQ-40 on F-35 has a full 360 degree sector transparent housing, which is important to enable the sensor to cover all aspects, and that is particularly important for surveilling and targeting ground targets as your aircraft needs to be able to fly circular orbits over a target including to do so during the egress as you leave the target.
Dd59h1w.jpeg



That said, a 360 degree aspect housing is also useful for air to air roles because it still lets you keep a track on aerial targets in the rear/rear-ventral aspect if needed, so it isn't a surprise if J-20 gets a newer EO IRST in future with a transparent 360 degree housing. It doesn't necessarily mean it will have an air to ground targeting role.

I think if it is the same EOTS as the one described in the paper, it will. The paper exclusively covers the sensor’s performance against ground targets like buildings or moving automobiles.
 

Blitzo

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I think if it is the same EOTS as the one described in the paper, it will. The paper exclusively covers the sensor’s performance against ground targets like buildings or moving automobiles.

EO IRST, not EOTS.

I think it would really benefit the community and mil watching in general by being more specific with our nomenclature.


As for the actual sensor described in the paper, the applications for faceted electro optic sensors on a rotating gimbal with A2A and A2G capability is very expansive, it is not limited to J-20. I understand why it was posted in this thread, but really that sort of sensor could have potential on any sort of aircraft which is:
- moderately LO at minimum (all the way to VLO)
- medium end to high end
- unmanned or manned
 

Deino

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I have got an alleged butt picture but it doesn't seem to be WS-15 frankly. The photo is also too blur to see anything definitive.

The rumor I heard is that it could be WS-10 ultra plus, which I don't even think such thing exists, and many private sources told me this engine is actually very similar to F-135.

View attachment 113953


Indeed too blurry, but at least the J-20 looks grey … the inner part of the nozzle still looks very much WS-10C-like.
 

Kalec

Junior Member
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Indeed too blurry, but at least the J-20 looks grey … the inner part of the nozzle still looks very much WS-10C-like.
;) Indeed it looks like WS-10C so please refrain from posting it on Twitter for the time being just in case got baited again.

The rumor said this engine is different with WS-10C therefore WS-10 ultra plus but it was also said that the actual nozzle flap looks similar to F-135. No idea what it means but here is what it is.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
;) Indeed it looks like WS-10C so please refrain from posting it on Twitter for the time being just in case got baited again.
I think you might be getting your leg pulled. We haven't heard anything about a WS-10 Ultra Plus or Max Pro or whatever it is. Whenever there's major activity in the Chinese MIC the frauds start circulating (shopped J-20S, shopped Y-20B, etc.)
 

Kalec

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think you might be getting your leg pulled.
I also think I might be got scammed. (again) However the price tag says it is free and nothing lose to post them so it is what it is.

The photo could be a blurred old archive photo of J-20 but the rumor is almost as if they are true so I am very confused rn. Maybe we could get ideas after more supporting evidence like videos appear somewhere in the internet.
 
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