J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

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Blitzo

Blitzo

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latenlazy said:
I also keep going back to this post from siegecrossbow back from last July. Maybe this dual engined J-20 really is just using a TVC equipped WS-10?
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We've had rumours that J-20 was testing a TVC WS-10 since like 2018. A delay of two years between those rumours and sudden pictures coming out is a little bit strange, especially as in the last year the rumours of WS-15 testing on J-20 also emerged.

That said, it also depends on what the nature of the rumours for WS-15 testing on J-20 -- did they only emerge because of these new pictures, or was there someone with credibility who said it independently on the fact.
 
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SanWenYu

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The latest batch of J-20 photos are awesome. These two are in particular interesting to me. This photo (cropped) shows how the under-chin IRST apertures look when covered:

capped_irst.jpg

Then in this photo, is it possible to make out the engine exhaust radar signature reduction screen (or whatever it is called)?

rader_signature_reduction.jpg
 
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latenlazy

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siegecrossbow said:
Only testing one engine though? CD is banned so I can't validate but I don't recall the guy specifying that only one engine is tested.
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Mmm well if they’re doing TVC FCS and control integration development it would make sense to start with one engine. You figure out basic control integration and flight laws with one engine, and then you only move onto two engines when you’re confident in how those control laws are working.
Bltizo said:
We've had rumours that J-20 was testing a TVC WS-10 since like 2018. A delay of two years between those rumours and sudden pictures coming out is a little bit strange, especially as in the last year the rumours of WS-15 testing on J-20 also emerged.

That said, it also depends on what the nature of the rumours for WS-15 testing on J-20 -- did they only emerge because of these new pictures, or was there someone with credibility who said it independently on the fact.
Click to expand...
Interestingly as I recall it the cartoonist who first cued us on one engine being equipped with TVC also did a lot of twin seater cartoons around that time. And in both cases it took maybe 2 years for those cartoons to materialize into something real. What if those cartoons were signifying the *start* of development work for these test variants. (And if that’s the case suddenly makes me wonder about what was actually going on with the two missiles per side bay cartoon).
 
Blitzo

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latenlazy said:
Mmm well if they’re doing TVC FCS and control integration development it would make sense to start with one engine. You figure out basic control integration and flight laws with one engine, and then you only move onto two engines when you’re confident in how those control laws are working.

Interestingly as I recall it the cartoonist who first cued us on one engine being equipped with TVC also did a lot of twin seater cartoons around that time. And in both cases it took maybe 2 years for those cartoons to materialize into something real. What if those cartoons were signifying the *start* of development work for these test variants. (And if that’s the case suddenly makes me wonder about what was actually going on with the two missiles per side bay cartoon).
Click to expand...

Actually I don't recall the cartoon very much -- I was more thinking about the rumours at the time as well as the interview that they did at Zhuhai where they answered "how do you know it isn't already done" to someone who asked if J-20 would also have TVC integrated.
 
by78

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Bltizo said:
Yeah.

Petal count isn't decisive of course, and it's possible this could still be a WS-10 variant with a new nozzle, but at the same time the last year or so's rumours about J-20 test flying with WS-15 cannot be ignored either.

I'm 50/50 to say that we might be seeing WS-15 here, which is about the highest rating I've ever given to a "possible WS-15 emergence" episode.


What have the usual suspects in the grapevine been saying about these pictures?


View attachment 81512View attachment 81513
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I wonder what are the chances of WS-15 and WS-10TVC sharing the same TVC nozzles or perhaps very similar looking nozzles with the same petal count.
 
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latenlazy

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Bltizo said:
Actually I don't recall the cartoon very much -- I was more thinking about the rumours at the time as well as the interview that they did at Zhuhai where they answered "how do you know it isn't already done" to someone who asked if J-20 would also have TVC integrated.
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Hmm. Good point.
 
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latenlazy

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Bltizo said:
At this point, the possibility isn't low.

There's been rumblings before that the WS-15 and WS-10 TVC nozzle looked quite similar.
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by78 said:
I wonder what are the chances of WS-15 and WS-10TVC sharing the same TVC nozzles or perhaps very similar looking nozzles with the same petal count.
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Yeah I think the point of the WS-10TVC was to be a testbed for the TVC they were going to use on the WS-15 anyways. But given what gongke said I was expecting shorter petals. It’s possible though that petal lengths are actually the same but a wider diameter engine makes the whole nozzle look shorter. I’m glad we got a clear picture but there really is just too many unknowns we still need answering.
 
KampfAlwin

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That new engine photo resembles this one we saw last year.
I count 15 petals on this one, just like the WS-10TVC… maybe someone can do a better estimate?
A4983D0F-991F-4D53-A512-E6957393CCAC.jpeg
 
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Totoro

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The nozzle in the image above definitely has 15 petals.
The nozzle of the WS10 engines on serial J20 definitely have 18 petals.
The nozzle we had in the latest images on these testbed J20 almost definitely have 13 petals. (And can't possibly have more than 14)
So those are 3 distinct engines/engine variants.

Coincidentally, as we know, that WS10 TVC as seen on J10 also had 13 petals. So if we'd count that engine as a separate variant from this one we recently saw on J20 testbed, we'd go up to 4 different engine variants, 3 of those spotted on a J20.
 
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