J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII


FangYuan

New Member
Registered Member
Pakistan seems be a friend of China, regarding CPEC. Is Pakistan capable to defend its air land against India, by JF-17 Thunder Block3 ?.
Why not China sell to Pakistan its J-10, J-20 jet fighters for safety against India ?.
Absolutely impossible. China has a good relationship with Pakistan, but Turkey does too. What happens if Pakistan secretly transfers information or resells J-20 to Turkey? China trusts Pakistan, but does not want to risk gambling. Historically, China has made a mistake, namely military cooperation with Turkey, transferring them many military technologies. Currently Turkey is one of the countries with the most hostile attitude to China. China does not want to repeat past mistakes.
 

ougoah

Senior Member
Registered Member
Absolutely impossible. China has a good relationship with Pakistan, but Turkey does too. What happens if Pakistan secretly transfers information or resells J-20 to Turkey? China trusts Pakistan, but does not want to risk gambling. Historically, China has made a mistake, namely military cooperation with Turkey, transferring them many military technologies. Currently Turkey is one of the countries with the most hostile attitude to China. China does not want to repeat past mistakes.
But military sales are fraught with these risks. How many future enemies did the US and Soviets sell to? COUNTLESS! The English basically delivered the latest and greatest engine tech of the time to the Soviets in a Rolls Royce. Any military trade or sale may backfire. This is why most export models are "monkey" models from Russian to American to Chinese equipment. Actually so far only Chinese military equipment sold seems to be similar or superior to PLA's own because Chinese weapons do not quite have the automatically assumed reputation as Russian or American ones. Yet the middle east is littered with Leclerc, Abrams, and Leopard parts... all export versions.

Selling non-offensive weapons is usually where most draw the line. But the latest and greatest is definitely not on offer. This means J-20. Even if it were approved for export, CAC can't build enough for PLAAF's demands already. Even J-10 was only recently approved for export in the J-10CE.
 

MastanKhan

Junior Member
Hi,

They are not monkey models sold to other countries---they are extremely capable models---.

Did the US have any F16 to answer against the UAE BLK60 F16's---no---they were the most advanced versions of the F16's of their time.

How about Israeli F16's F15's and now the F35---. Israeli have upgraded their F35's---would they be superior to the american F35's---???

How about pakistani BKL52's when pakistan got it a few years ago---. It was more advanced than most of the F16's in the US inventory---.

Now F22 is a different animal---but other than that---no US / Chinese / Russian ally would accept any lower rated equipment if they don't want to---.

How about SAAB---it is desperately seeking sale of its aircraft---. Would someone think that SAAB would find a buyer with inferior equipmnet---heck no---.

Basically it depends on the buyer what their need is---the relationship of the buyer to the seller and the location / adversary it has---.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
Hi,

They are not monkey models sold to other countries---they are extremely capable models---.

Did the US have any F16 to answer against the UAE BLK60 F16's---no---they were the most advanced versions of the F16's of their time.

How about Israeli F16's F15's and now the F35---. Israeli have upgraded their F35's---would they be superior to the american F35's---???

How about pakistani BKL52's when pakistan got it a few years ago---. It was more advanced than most of the F16's in the US inventory---.

Now F22 is a different animal---but other than that---no US / Chinese / Russian ally would accept any lower rated equipment if they don't want to---.

How about SAAB---it is desperately seeking sale of its aircraft---. Would someone think that SAAB would find a buyer with inferior equipmnet---heck no---.

Basically it depends on the buyer what their need is---the relationship of the buyer to the seller and the location / adversary it has---.
Thoughtful accurate post....
 

ougoah

Senior Member
Registered Member
Hi,

They are not monkey models sold to other countries---they are extremely capable models---.

Did the US have any F16 to answer against the UAE BLK60 F16's---no---they were the most advanced versions of the F16's of their time.

How about Israeli F16's F15's and now the F35---. Israeli have upgraded their F35's---would they be superior to the american F35's---???

How about pakistani BKL52's when pakistan got it a few years ago---. It was more advanced than most of the F16's in the US inventory---.

Now F22 is a different animal---but other than that---no US / Chinese / Russian ally would accept any lower rated equipment if they don't want to---.

How about SAAB---it is desperately seeking sale of its aircraft---. Would someone think that SAAB would find a buyer with inferior equipmnet---heck no---.

Basically it depends on the buyer what their need is---the relationship of the buyer to the seller and the location / adversary it has---.
This landscape isn't quite as simple as my post may have suggested. So I stand corrected that countries often do sell equal performance or superior products than what their military currently uses. But your examples are not quite accurate. The USAF itself may not operate F-15s or F-16s as advanced as the ones sold to some nations. This is true but the USAF hasn't purchased as many modernised ones or upgraded its entire fleet to those modernised standards. This does not prove against the fact that monkey models do exist and do get sold.

An HQ-16 sold to close ally of China, Pakistan in 2019 for example would likely be a later and more capable version than a year 2000 model HQ-16 system belonging to the PLA. This doesn't mean China always sells the exact equivalent in PLA operation. Something like the VT-4 to Thailand is much more advanced than the Type 96B in PLA. When it comes to offensive weapons, selling monkey models I suspect would be the standard if sold at all. Similarly if something like the J-20 is allowed to be sold, I suspect it wouldn't be exactly the same as the one in PLAAF.

I doubt Saab would sell an inferior Gripen as well. Like I doubt China would sell an inferior J-10CE compared to its own. Maybe some variances here and there that's necessary for security. You're quite right about the decision being dependent on the buyer and who the potential adversaries are. The monkey model theories come from the alleged substandard models of tanks, ammunitions, and missiles sold by Soviets and US to their clients in the past. At least all the destroyed Abrams find the excuse useful.
 

Top