J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI


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Xsizor

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so WS-15 confirmed to 2025 ?
WS-10 and its "improved" variants ought to be fully inducted by 20222. WS-15 should be inducted by 2025
Isn't the WS-15 a 180+Kn engine ? How does it compare with other aircraft engines ?
It performs admirably as a top line fighter jet engine of the highest thrust class , atleast on paper. It is better than the engines on the F22 ( PW F119) but slightly less or equal to (PW F135 ) thats on the F35... on paper. An engine is more than just thrust. It needs to be reliable and engine life is very important. European and US engines have very good life ( "relatively" better than their russian counterparts). But China is well aware of it and is trying to improve the engines to meet the reliability standards set by the west ( who wouldn't try to? ). Their continuous improvements of a lesser powered engine tells that they aspire to meet/ exceed the standards of the most established nations/ corporations. Time will tell.
 

Biscuits

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Isn't the WS-15 a 180+Kn engine ? How does it compare with other aircraft engines ?
IIRC 180kN is what they managed to get it to perform, the goal is 197kN.

Compared to F135, it has 3D TVC and J-20 will also mount two of them. But there is no VTOL capability planned.

Compared to Izd 30, too early to say.

Compared to F119, it has higher thrust and 3D TVC instead of 2D.

Compared to WS-10B, it has higher thrust.
 

ougoah

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Are we even remotely sure about any of those specs? I was under the impression WS-15 is still being developed. Perhaps even being finalised but it's unlikely any accurate information is out there. All of that must be based on fan speculation that uses some leaks and official hints. Unfortunately there hasn't been any confirmation so even if the info is correct, it would be a coincidence. It is easy to guess the ballpark figures because it should have more thrust than WS-10B but possibly less than F135 and generally speaking they are aiming for F135 levels of thrust, finer details remain mysterious.

The most interesting story regarding WS-15 so far is the rumour that the entire project was restarted. At least reworked in a major way, to accommodate better manufacturing or newer technologies. That was the rumoured reason if any of that was even true. Also been talks about older version having reliability issues. Who knows. One thing is certain, if WS-15 ever in future makes its way onto a single engine platform, PLAAF will have considered its reliability to be superior to latest WS-10s.
 

Xsizor

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Are we even remotely sure about any of those specs? I was under the impression WS-15 is still being developed. Perhaps even being finalised but it's unlikely any accurate information is out there. All of that must be based on fan speculation that uses some leaks and official hints. Unfortunately there hasn't been any confirmation so even if the info is correct, it would be a coincidence. It is easy to guess the ballpark figures because it should have more thrust than WS-10B but possibly less than F135 and generally speaking they are aiming for F135 levels of thrust, finer details remain mysterious.

The most interesting story regarding WS-15 so far is the rumour that the entire project was restarted. At least reworked in a major way, to accommodate better manufacturing or newer technologies. That was the rumoured reason if any of that was even true. Also been talks about older version having reliability issues. Who knows. One thing is certain, if WS-15 ever in future makes its way onto a single engine platform, PLAAF will have considered its reliability to be superior to latest WS-10s.
WS-15 is developed for J-20. The plane came before the engine. The WS-15, i assume, has been in development as long as the fighter jet development or atleast 75% of the time devoted for devoping J-20. The aircraft is heavy weight fighter with huge demands like super maneuverability and super-cruise. It has been developed to be that from the beginning- to be a critical tool for the PLAAF war doctrine. C
 

Xsizor

Junior Member
Registered Member
Are we even remotely sure about any of those specs? I was under the impression WS-15 is still being developed. Perhaps even being finalised but it's unlikely any accurate information is out there. All of that must be based on fan speculation that uses some leaks and official hints. Unfortunately there hasn't been any confirmation so even if the info is correct, it would be a coincidence. It is easy to guess the ballpark figures because it should have more thrust than WS-10B but possibly less than F135 and generally speaking they are aiming for F135 levels of thrust, finer details remain mysterious.

The most interesting story regarding WS-15 so far is the rumour that the entire project was restarted. At least reworked in a major way, to accommodate better manufacturing or newer technologies. That was the rumoured reason if any of that was even true. Also been talks about older version having reliability issues. Who knows. One thing is certain, if WS-15 ever in future makes its way onto a single engine platform, PLAAF will have considered its reliability to be superior to latest WS-10s.
So if it needs to be a potent element of the chinese A2/AD system, it has to have super-cruise and super-maneuverability. WS-15 is therefore required to furnish thrust levels similar or slighly lesser than f135. 180+ KN purported figure fits that quite perfect. There isn't a lift fan or the threat of engine failure(as it is a twin engine) so i presume the engineers would not have to strive that hard to get the ws-15 equated with the f135 in the departments of reliability.
 

Mohsin77

Junior Member
Registered Member
Usually, the problem of reliability isn't with the prototypes that get tested (at this stage in a program) because the turbine blades and other parts are being made under the most controlled environments, by the best engineers, with the highest resources available.

The problem at this stage is the ability to mass produce those same parts on a large scale, while maintaining the same manufacturing standards, at a cost-effective price.

I think China is already past the physics and engineering hurdle of building reliable engines. I'll bet that the prototype WS-15 that China is testing is already fully reliable. Their problem now is at the industrial level. Being able to cost effectively reproduce it on a massive scale. Getting all the factories involved in the project, which will manufacture all the parts, up to a standard where they can match the standards use to build the prototype.

This is probably what is taking extra time. But I think they will get there soon, because they are fully committed.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Guys ... is this the engine thread or the one for the J-20???
 

Xsizor

Junior Member
Registered Member
Usually, the problem of reliability isn't with the prototypes that get tested (at this stage in a program) because the turbine blades and other parts are being made under the most controlled environments, by the best engineers, with the highest resources available.

The problem at this stage is the ability to mass produce those same parts on a large scale, while maintaining the same manufacturing standards, at a cost-effective price.

I think China is already past the physics and engineering hurdle of building reliable engines. I'll bet that the prototype WS-15 that China is testing is already fully reliable. Their problem now is at the industrial level. Being able to cost effectively reproduce it on a massive scale. Getting all the factories involved in the project, which will manufacture all the parts, up to a standard where they can match the standards use to build the prototype.

This is probably what is taking extra time. But I think they will get there soon, because they are fully committed.
Interesting.My thoughts are somewhat on the opposite plane. Reliability is the biggest issue imho. Mass production( no, i won't extrapolate chinese prowess in mass producing electronics to the aircraft engines) is a less of a concern as china isn't that lacking in skilled labour. It can poach chinese engineers/technicians who work in commercial/corporate firms of domestic/foreign companies and train them to operate the machines. Or they can spend resources in absorbing and training young engineers straightaway from their college graduation year. But if the engine to be mass produced isn't reliable, then the capital invested in training the new labourers and making the tools would be a little bit wasted.
 
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