J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[localizer]

i guess the main advantage for optical detection on a 5th is so that you’re not sending radar waves out. It they can combine satellite imaging with that then we might have the future detection method.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

The problem isn't the lenses it's the data and verbals the temperature of the host aircraft that of the air around it that of the air around the target aircraft the altitudes, clouds moisture, and more sure you could build a huge IR system but because of the variables you still end up with a range of maybe 100km detection of a non afterburbing aircraft in optimum conditions.

 

[latenlazy]

The problem isn't the lenses it's the data and verbals the temperature of the host aircraft that of the air around it that of the air around the target aircraft the altitudes, clouds moisture, and more sure you could build a huge IR system but because of the variables you still end up with a range of maybe 100km detection of a non afterburbing aircraft in optimum conditions.

100 km would be pretty good, but with today’s resolution, sensitivity, filters, and signal processing (and nowaday’s machine vision AI), you can actually do significantly better. The problems are well known but none of them are intractable.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

100km is virtually on top of each other for fighters and it's inside the likely range of radar detection for a LO.
The factors very from moment to moment and can widely change. Add in other weather effects and it gets worse.

 

[latenlazy]

100km is virtually on top of each other for fighters and it's inside the likely range of radar detection for a LO.
The factors very from moment to moment and can widely change. Add in other weather effects and it gets worse.

Again, you assume these are intractable problems when they’re not.

 

[Jura The idiot]

100km is virtually on top of each other for fighters and it's inside the likely range of radar detection for a LO.
The factors very from moment to moment and can widely change. Add in other weather effects and it gets worse.

my imagination of modern air combat possibly involving so called stealth aircraft has been this, in one-liner:

they'd use an IRST to look for IR emissions and if there might be some in a certain direction, they'd use a radar to check what noise (or "noise" LOL) is it there, and then act accordingly

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Your imagination is lacking.
The aim of an IRST is to locate and track targets by there IR however this depends on a lot of ‘If’s’
Basically IRST is a “Game changer” of anti stealth....

Because of the earths atmosphere and it’s effects of light, variations of tempriture humidity and weather, if the enemy is on burner or not. Is there a high thick cloud cover. It’s not Intractable but its limited. Add in that stealth aircraft are also starting to consider IR stealth and more and more If’s.

So maybe everything is working for you and you get a track at 100km. But then again at 100Km you probably would see get some “noise” on your radar. In bad weather though it all shrinks so maybe 60km but then your radar is giving a better return.

 

[latenlazy]

Your imagination is lacking.
The aim of an IRST is to locate and track targets by there IR however this depends on a lot of ‘If’s’
Basically IRST is a “Game changer” of anti stealth....

Because of the earths atmosphere and it’s effects of light, variations of tempriture humidity and weather, if the enemy is on burner or not. Is there a high thick cloud cover. It’s not Intractable but its limited. Add in that stealth aircraft are also starting to consider IR stealth and more and more If’s.

So maybe everything is working for you and you get a track at 100km. But then again at 100Km you probably would see get some “noise” on your radar. In bad weather though it all shrinks so maybe 60km but then your radar is giving a better return.

I would not be surprised if next generation IRSTs can get to the 150-200 km range. The logic you’re using for the limits of IRSTs would have plane mounted radars perpetually stuck at 100 km ranges and still unable to see through clouds (a lot of the atmospheric conditions that can affect IRST performance also impacts certain bands of radar). The base technologies behind IRSTs are still iterating and improving. Performance naturally follows. A lot of the atmospheric effects you mentioned are already handled by selective band filtering, signal processing, and image correction algorithms. Those are only improving over time. There are no “foolproof” sensing technologies. They have all their conditions and limits. I do not think IRSTs will surpass radars in range, but they offer other benefits in resolution, detail, and in some conditions signal strength.

All of this sidesteps the original point though. Larger IRSTs are going to have more sensing and resolving power than smaller ones. Simply arguing IRSTs have limits is not a strong argument that the pod mounted under the J-20’s nose is not an A2A oriented EO sensor.

 

[davidau]

...the awesome threesome with radar absorbing material & nice camauflage[spelling?] ... crews and supporting staff at the background..

 

[Deino]

Guys ... are we within general aerial combat operations and discussions around or is this strictly related to the J-20.

Please stop these off-topic discussions