J-15 carrier fighter thread

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
It’s rather that our PLA-watching methodology is bad at synthesizing all the various signs and data points we ourselves have collected for the most part. And also bad at logical deduction/conclusion due to sometimes unwarranted over-conservatism.

These should all really be informing uplifts to the methodology. In my mind, examples include 076 starting construction; J-XDS’ planform; J-15T production (when China had the capability, capacity, stated intent and clear obvious need - so it should’ve been taken as de facto); 004 construction; and possibly the revised H-20 (I’m still thinking under 50% likelihood, but getting closer).

So I’d still be very surprised if such squadrons materialised without many signs along the way, even if not picked up upon by prevailing PLA-watching methodology of the day.

For things like production counts, it is simply difficult, if not impossible to track those if the PLA actively wants to keep production numbers a secret.
It's rather easy to just prohibit and warn of releasing images of factory airfields and aircraft serial numbers in the day to day -- because that is really the only way for us to track them. Nor do we have access to round the clock satellites of airfields and factories that nation states do.

Whether it's J-16s, J-15Ts, J-20s, or J-35/As, our ability to track actual numbers is virtually non-existent.

Even for J-15T, a few years back in 2021 (when the existence of J-15T then known as J-15B) was confirmed, we were able to at least have an estimate for when the PLAN may receive them, from an article I wrote at the time:
"If the J-15B emerges within the next year or so as currently expected, it may be ready for handover to the PLAN before 2025."
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And I was pretty much on the money in terms of timeline, because it was viable to estimate the developmental time needed for an aircraft like J-15T to go through the EMD process given SAC's existing Flanker family experience -- but in terms of production scale, that is basically impossible to determine by anyone, because without knowing the year to year order/breakdown of SAC Flankers (how many J-16s will be built versus how many J-15Ts, for example), we exist in a state where they can simply jumpscare us with a brigade or two worth of new aircraft in the span of a year and a half.

However by virtue of needing to be evidence based and sensible, we cannot simply assume to know what an annual production breakdown is, without credible rumours to give us a foundation to work with.


(076 starting construction was actually somewhat expected, and anticipated because we had some rather clear rumours as early as 2020 about what it would look like.)
 

hkphooey

Just Hatched
Registered Member
By the way, can we put together a list of the most recent new numbers & their H-numbers??

H1104xxx = cn. 020025
H1104202 = cn. 020027
H1104206 = cn. 020031
H1111139 = cn. 030044
Trying to tie up the aircraft on the Shandong last week. Sadly couldnt get a ticket so had to settle for a boat trip so have had to rely on photos online. Don't suppose there is an up to date listing of the serial to con no tie up. Also what is the significance of the H no? Many thanks.

SerialCon No
02020027J-15
600304J-15
61J-15
79J-15
95020020J-15
96020021J-15T
00J-15
06020031J-15T
07J-15
08J-15T
 

johncliu88

Junior Member
Registered Member
Trying to tie up the aircraft on the Shandong last week. Sadly couldnt get a ticket so had to settle for a boat trip so have had to rely on photos online. Don't suppose there is an up to date listing of the serial to con no tie up. Also what is the significance of the H no? Many thanks.

SerialCon No
02020027J-15
600304J-15
61J-15
79J-15
95020020J-15
96020021J-15T
00J-15
06020031J-15T
07J-15
08J-15T
I think there was a 00 on the desk as well. It was a J-15T.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Unfortunately, Yankee and Shilao seems to suggest that the J-15 family may never get WS-10s in one of their latest podcasts.

【歼15为什么一直用俄发?】
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To sum it up:

- Mainly for logistical consistency and ease of maintenance (as dealing with 3 different engines on a single carrier will become pretty challenging).
- The new/upgraded variant of the AL-31F has increased thrusts, and its performance is sufficient for the J-15 family's needs.
- There are no technological, performance and production capacity issues that can be related to the decision to not employ WS-10s on the J-15 family.
- The current production J-15 family is definitely not using "remaining AL-31Fs in storage" (given how there are only about ~40+ Su-33, but there are already more than 100 units of the J-15 family today) - Meaning that the new-built J-15Ts/DTs are definitely using new-built AL-31Fs.
- PLANAF pilots have always been using AL-31Fs till now, hence there may no longer the need to swap the J-15 family's engines for WS-10s (mainly because the pilots are already used to the operations of the AL-31Fs).
- In the next 10-20 years, the AL-31F will continue become a very important/part of Chinese carrier's flight decks (namely, the J-15 family will keep using them).
- As a means of maintaining "military diplomacy goodwill" between China and Russia (this may also relate to the Sino-Flanker agreements between China and Russia).

If this is true, then I suppose the WS-10H2 may only see first usages on future carrier-based UCAVs (and maybe even the LRIP J-XD(S)Hs in case the WS-15H is not ready).
 
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