Despite what some have claimed in the past, I'm certain the J-15 can't take off the Kuz class carriers with full fuel AND full air to air load. Strike loads are more unlikely. I don't think I've even seen Su-33 take off with full loads. I'm sure PLAN knew this as they went in with J-15 and Kuz carriers. This is why I'm certain CATOBAR carriers will have J-15s onboard.
J-15 carrier-borne fighter thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
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Despite what some have claimed in the past, I'm certain the J-15 can't take off the Kuz class carriers with full fuel AND full air to air load. Strike loads are more unlikely. I don't think I've even seen Su-33 take off with full loads. I'm sure PLAN knew this as they went in with J-15 and Kuz carriers. This is why I'm certain CATOBAR carriers will have J-15s onboard.
Brumby
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I don't really care too much about its load limitation (if any) because after all it lacks cat. It is since 7 years from the first carrier landing. It would be reasonable to see the tempo increasing in terms of carrier aviation activities. I mean the real thing with weapons load out pictures of the J-15 taking off and landing. What I am seeing lately are pictures of the J-15 on land. Seems like the carrier aviation at sea has gone onto some kind of hibernation mode.
and here you are absolutely spot on, the J-15 is unable to reach full fuel or weapons load-outs on departure from the Liaoning and here sister, so no, they are not going to bringing a full load out back aboard. Something you really don't want to do anyway, LockMart and USN had to work very hard to enable the F-35C to return to ship with the full internal load-out....
They raised the max speed to 145 knts across the stern, so even with a Chinese CATOBAR boat, it will still be a little dicey bringing a fully loaded J-15 back aboard ship... Its been customary in the past to dispose of certain ordinance prior to returning to the boat.
The Ford promises to raise safe CAT and TRAP weights, while preserving the airframe by spreading those forces out over time. With present steam cats, you've got it all once you "drop the hammer", with EMAL's, you have the ability to spread those forces out over time and accelerate the aircraft further once the launch has begun....
Similarly the TRAP's will also spread the forces over time, increasing the braking force as some of that initial momentum has been dissipated.
So yes, the J-15 is patiently waiting for the those CATOBAR boats in order to live up to its full potential....
Really makes me wonder what the max landing weight of J-15 will be on a CATOBAR and how this problem is overcome with the J-35 if at all. I'd imagine the extra lift added by the canards surely help with improving the control-ability of the J-15 landing heavy but who knows what they're capable of. What specs the harnesses can handle and the flight deck with such a heavy fighter.
J-15 having yet to realise its full potential is the main reason I suspect it will have a role onboard CATOBAR carriers. Just seems like such a waste when you consider how PLAAF has included modernised flankers in its frontline. CATOBAR carriers may be decades away from full potential and if the field changes so dramatically as to make 4th gens completely useless, then that's just poor planning. All the drone wingman, micromissile, photonic radar talk makes me feel the future of air combat is going to be more accommodating to a large fighter like the J-15 as opposed to the F-35.
And yet the fuel and load limitations are a major factor holding the PLAAF back from increasing operations tempo, in fact those limitations are likely behind the limited number of J-15's extant to date. At present the Chinese Carrier forces are in their formative stages, with the only fixed wing aircraft capable of launching limited to approx. 1/2 fuel and 1/2 full weapons load-out. That limits combat radius and with only a partial weapons load out capability? it doesn't make much sense to go looking for trouble??
So while I can't over emphasize the importance of CV-16 and CV-17, (naval aviation is something you have to learn by doing), those vessels are most importantly occupied qualifying sailors and aviators and their various components and bringing them up to speed.
So while those vessels are very important regionally, they lack the ultimate capability to be a factor globally, and as such, high tempo operations are something that will come in the future, when they have the back up of 2 to 6 more CATOBAR carriers.
In the meantime we seem to be seeing J-20 production resuming, and at least a budding interest in FC-31/J-35 development and testing.
We really cannot afford to under estimate the J-15, remember the USAF is potentially purchasing the F-15EX, so lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.. in the near term 5th Generation fighter aircraft will "quarter-back" our current 4th Generation birds...
At present the J-15 is the only carrier qualified fixed wing aircraft in the Chinese military, it has a long and distinguished future ahead of it. Once those CATOBAR boats are built and qualified, J-15 production will no doubt resume and these beautiful practical carrier aircraft will proliferate.
The fact that PLANAF continue to expand its capabilities and operate it off land remind us of its importance.
How did you reach at the 1/2 fuel/weapons conclusion?
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/stobar-aircraft-ski-jump-performance-su-33-j-15.t8043/
Are numbers provided by Bltizo in this thread wrong?
I don't know. I don't read Chinese nor do I understand the diagrams in that particular post. But I do know that none of us has ever seen aJ-15 take off from CV-16 with a full weapons load. In my best guess I will agree with AFB. I served aboard five USN carriers and have seen thousands of aircrfat launches up close and personal.
I won't comment on the max speed, but the critical moment is when the nose gear attacks the angled deck of the ramp, and the nose gear strut begins to compress immediately. Even when the aircraft starts from the aft launch station, (all the Chinese aircraft appear to launch from the aft station all the time), Full Burner is applied, and when the safety blocks drop, the roll begins, so whether it crosses that transition at 100 knots or 80 knts, it will continue to accelerate to flying speed as it charges up the ramp. That angled ramp allows the aircraft to clear the deck at 100+ knots accelerating in a very high angle of attack....
As that upward momentum begins to dissipate, the aircraft, still in full burner, still at a very high angle of attack, will begin to settle toward the water, particularly if its at a heavier launch weight. That very settling, allows the aircraft to continue to increase lift production and accelerate, when lift production equals aircraft gross weight, the settling will stop, and as the aircraft continues to accelerate it will fly away under its own power......
So the J-15 may launch with more ordinance and less fuel if a buddy tanker is standing by to "top it up"? otherwise its a 50/50 trade off.. Lets be honest, the J-15 will haul a real load off a land based runway, but fill it up with fuel and ordinance, and launch it off CV-16 or CV-17's ramp and its going to be a short ride and a swim.....