J-10 Thread IV

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
Come to think of it, the final go may very well be connected with the 2019 engagement.
Iirc there was quite a controversy over those aim-120Cs being used "not as intended".
Well, now Pakistan simply got fighters and missiles which don't ask permissions.

It's a result of the Rafale+Meteor acquisition by the IAF, which was a result of the 2019 engagement.

In any case....

Welcome J-10C(P?) to the PAF. This is what we have in store for you in this theater: You'll be facing an enemy 3x your size, and be operationally outnumbered. But if you do it right, the 'tea is fantastic,' iA. Sound exciting? Good. Now gear-up and get ready to fight.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Recently, newly refitted pilots of a brigade of the Air Force of the Eastern Theater Command conducted two-on-one air confrontation training. From the full modification of the J-7 fighter to the J-10 fighter, from close-range visual air combat to over-the-horizon air combat, the pilots used a variety of tactics to adjust the air posture, firmly lock the target in the electromagnetic interference, and complete the "kill"!

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According to the comments I saw on Weibo by netizens, the Weibo mentioned that this brigade of the Eastern Theater Air Force was replaced with J-10C fighters.

Youtube video embedded for your convenience.

 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
It's a result of the Rafale+Meteor acquisition by the IAF, which was a result of the 2019 engagement.
(1) Rafale was downselected back in 2012. Meteor was known to be part of the deal back then. 2019 certainly wasn't a turning point for Indians, at best it added some traction in navigating Indian political battles.
(2) If there would be no sovereignty concerns, continuing down the F-16 path would've been probably a road of less resistance, and roads of lesser resistance are often favored by officials in charge.
(3) On a personal level, I really see J-10 as much more of an F-16 replacement(and, in a wider context, replacement of US-sourced AF equipment) than a counter. Because sovereignty is way higher up the ladder of priorities than a few kms of range in either direction.
 

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
(1) Rafale was downselected back in 2012. Meteor was known to be part of the deal back then. 2019 certainly wasn't a turning point for Indians, at best it added some traction in navigating Indian political battles.

The 2012 deal for local production was very different than the off-the-shelf one they went with after 2019.

Everyone in India was demanding answers and they pushed the Rafale through because of it:

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plawolf

Lieutenant General
I think it was the EW performance of the JF17s that basically made all the IAF aircraft, including their vaunted MKIs, blind and deaf that was the main deciding factor.

I think before that the PAF always had some doubts in the back of their minds about how well Chinese weapons’ paper specs would translate into real world results. Hence they were hedging their bets retaining F16s as well as JF17s despite all the political limitations the Americans put on their F16s.

Those doubts were erased by the performance of the JF17s, and now that the PAF knows that Chinese hardware can deliver against top enemy opponents, they were finally willing to bite the bullet and get the J10.

The Indian Rafales would have also been a factor, as would the PL15 (if it’s even part of the deal). But I think the real world performance of the JF17s was the key factor.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think it was the EW performance of the JF17s that basically made all the IAF aircraft, including their vaunted MKIs, blind and deaf that was the main deciding factor.

I think before that the PAF always had some doubts in the back of their minds about how well Chinese weapons’ paper specs would translate into real world results. Hence they were hedging their bets retaining F16s as well as JF17s despite all the political limitations the Americans put on their F16s.

Those doubts were erased by the performance of the JF17s, and now that the PAF knows that Chinese hardware can deliver against top enemy opponents, they were finally willing to bite the bullet and get the J10.

The Indian Rafales would have also been a factor, as would the PL15 (if it’s even part of the deal). But I think the real world performance of the JF17s was the key factor.

Well this isn't accurate but you could be right.

As far as we know, JF-17 blocks I and II do not feature any strong EW. I think at most, they can be fitted with EW pods but more for self defence than proper EW like Y-8, Y-9 special mission aircraft that do focus on EW and something like J-16D.

PAF used AWACS/AEWC like ZDK-03 and Erieye so both Chinese and European AEWC.

For EW attacks the PAF used No.24 Blinders squadron modified Falcon 20 aircraft with various electronic attack capabilities fitted out. These are very old EW aircraft but dedicated ones.

F-16s stayed back. JF-17 escorted strike package carried by Mirages and JF-17 may have acted in the role of some limited EW attack if they were equipped with pods. The JF-17s have such slight available power it makes little sense for them to be equipped with any serious EW to have pulled off a spoofing and jamming of IAF radars and comms.

Much of the details are kept hidden for good reason. PAF do not want to educate the IAF too much as to allow IAF to begin eroding PAF electronic advantages. IAF however did still react by purchasing Rafales and now trying to update all their MRAAMs away from baseline R-77.

I don't believe Blinders were used in any forward positions or have the range to impose significant affect on the IAF from well within Pakistan. Yet the JF-17s escorted Mirages basically around where India proper begins, WELL ahead of Blinders and F-16s and maybe even hundred + kilometers ahead of any AEWC.

So those JF-17s pushing forwards would have relied only on themselves. Maybe the IAF was just so unprepared and did not expect the PAF that if they were up in the air, the strike package and JF-17s would have been met sooner and no such jamming would have happened. Perhaps the Indians were just no shows when the strike was dropped but in the ensuing air combat when the Indians had Mirages, Su-30s, and Migs, they were blinded and jammed. Maybe that was the work of the PAF EW aircraft and maybe it was JF-17 or a combination but it sure can't be said to be certainly the work of JF-17.
 
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