ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

thunderchief

Senior Member
If there is any credibility to this story I'm not so sure it is bad news thunderchief. Granted it is a threat if true but easy pickings for coalition aircraft if they are in the air at the wrong time and place.

Coalition aircraft are not patrolling 24/7, otherwise ISIS pilots would not have time and space to train. And it is entirely possible for Mig-21 or Mig-23 to make one-way full afterburner dash to some critical target (let's say US embassy in Baghdad , some critical dam , refinery, power plant etc ... )
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
You're drawing some large conclusions based on a news report. I'd urge caution. :)

This article could be entirely fabricated (it wouldn't surprise me with today's "journalists" ) but if we assume that part about training on Mig-21 and Mig-23 to be true .... ISIS are savage, but they are not stupid . They know that they don't stand a chance in aerial combat against Coalition aircraft or even Syrian airforce . They also know that using said aircraft for conventional ground strikes against their opponents won't do much damage (and they risk being shoot down) . Therefore, I'm willing to bet they are planning something spectacular to further terrify their enemies and increase recruitment among their supporters .
 

delft

Brigadier
It's difficult to take a report seriously that can't differentiate between a MiG-21 and a MiG-23.
Turkey has been supporting ISIS now for a long time and buying oil from them. The Turks and their paymasters in Riyadh are more interested in supporting terrorists against the Syrian state than fighting ISIS.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
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Bad news. I somehow doubt they would use this aircraft as conventional fighter/bombers ....



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And this makes report number three.
17 October 2014 Last updated at 14:16 ET
Islamic State 'training pilots to fly fighter jets'
Iraqi pilots who have joined Islamic State are training its members in Syria to fly three captured fighter jets, according to a UK-based activist group that monitors the conflict.
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR) said witnesses had seen the planes being flown around a military airport in Aleppo.
Meanwhile, Iraqi forces have launched an attack on IS militants near Tikrit.
The city was among the areas in Syria and Iraq seized by IS this year.
Rami Abdul Rahman, head of the SOHR, said IS was using Iraqi officers who were pilots under ex-Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to train fighters in Syria.
"People saw the flights, they went up many times from the airport and they are flying in the skies outside the airport and coming back," he said.
It is not known how many Iraqi pilots have defected.
Witnesses told the SOHR the planes appeared to be MiG-21 or MiG-23 models.
The BBC's Sally Nabil in Baghdad says IS has three planes which it captured earlier from the Syrian military in Aleppo and Raqqa.
US Central Command spokesman Col Patrick Ryder told Reuters the Pentagon was "not aware" of IS conducting any flight operations in Syria or elsewhere.
Aleppo became a key battleground in the fight between Syrian rebels, which now include IS, and government forces after the uprising against President Bashar al-Assad in 2011.
New co-ordination
Separately, the Iraqi government said its troops had gained ground to the north and west of Tikrit and cut an important IS supply route.
Correspondents say that past efforts by the government to regain territory in the area have ended in failure.
Meanwhile Kurdish forces, backed by US-led air strikes, are continuing to fight militants in the northern Syrian town of Kobane.
US-led warplanes struck IS positions on Friday, taking advantage of new co-ordination with the town's Kurdish defenders.
The Pentagon confirmed there were six air strikes near Kobane, saying initial reports indicated they successfully "struck three IS buildings, destroyed two IS fighting positions, suppressed three IS fighting positions and destroyed two IS vehicles".
There was another air strike on an IS oil facility near Shadadi.
The US military also said its "partner nation military forces" had conducted two air strikes in Iraq, near Baiji.
On Thursday, Kurdish commander Baharin Kandal told the BBC that the militants had been driven out of most of Kobane.
Our correspondent says refugees watching their town from a hilltop nearby agree that there are only two or three neighbourhoods that are still the scene of fighting.
The battle for Kobane, which is also known as Ayn al-Arab, is regarded as a major test of whether the US-led coalition's air campaign can push back IS.
Activists say more than 600 people have been killed since the jihadist group launched its assault on the mainly Kurdish town a month ago.
More than 160,000 people have fled in the face of the IS advance.
Capturing the town would give the group unbroken control of a long stretch of the Syrian-Turkish border.
IS fighters have gained a reputation for brutal tactics, including mass killings and beheadings of soldiers and journalists.
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It's difficult to take a report seriously that can't differentiate between a MiG-21 and a MiG-23.
Turkey has been supporting ISIS now for a long time and buying oil from them. The Turks and their paymasters in Riyadh are more interested in supporting terrorists against the Syrian state than fighting ISIS.
Considering both models are in the Syrian inventory and that when swept back the wing configuration of the 23 resembles the 21 it's not that hard delft.
Also remember this is not a possibility without precedence In the Lybian conflict Mig21 pilots defected form the Gaadafi government Air Force to the Rebellion and Flew missions, the Questions are numbers spare parts, fuel and weapons. normally only a single wing at best. 3-4 fighters. giveen losses suffered by the Syrian government it's likely a fairly good stock pile of weapons is available. We know that ISIS got it's hands on at least 3 Syrian Airforce Mig 21's when they took Tabqa in Raqqah province.

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This source purports to indicate that the FSA is flying Migs or L39 Albatross out of al-Jarrah in Aleppo.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
[video=youtube;-Ux0Mb7pryM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ux0Mb7pryM[/video]
This video has been perported to show The Isis fighter jet. It can't be confirmed though as all you see is a fighter doing a flyby.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I can believe Iraqi pilots have joined with ISIS. I don't believe they can train to fly anyone unless they've had some training before to be pilots. What fighters seen on TV said to be in possession of ISIS all look like single-seaters. How are they going to manage to train them with those? Beside I don't expect those pilots they have now to be living long if they take to the air.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I can believe Iraqi pilots have joined with ISIS. I don't believe they can train to fly anyone unless they've had some training before to be pilots. What fighters seen on TV said to be in possession of ISIS all look like single-seaters. How are they going to manage to train them with those? Beside I don't expect those pilots they have now to be living long if they take to the air.
First is most likely it would take years to train a proper fighter pilot so defectors are the best bet. now as to why they are alive? If they Surrendered in the proper conditions. That is proved there loyalty to ISIS then ISIS may have elected to allow them in. They might have been the triggermen at some of the executions for example.

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Mace The fifth photo in this group is of a Mig 21 two seater you can see the second canopy quite clearly.
 

ohan_qwe

Junior Member
If the IS only have one or a few airbases won't the coalition destroy them in a day or so? It's not like that IS have airdefences and hiding an airbase must be impossible.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
It will take years to train a fighter pilot true, but given the vintage and number of aircraft, as well as the likely total lack of suitable weapons, I doubt IS wants those Migs to contest control of the skies against coalition aircraft.

While tempting, we should resist the temptation to think of IS as a bunch of mindless fanatics. Undoubtably they have many fighting under their black flag that would fit that bill and then some, that cannot be true for all of them, especially their leadership or else they would not have gotten any near as far as they did.

As such, IS will know that trying to shoot down coalition combat aircraft is effectively an act of suicide, worse, a futile act of suicide as the chances of them being able to even get a shot off are astronomical.

You also have to ask the obvious question of why they are bothering to have Iraqi pilots train their own people rather than for the Iraqi pilots to fly the fighters directly, which would have saved them the bother of having to train up new pilots altogether.

My assessment is that IS do not intend to use those fighters in the traditional manner, but rather use them for some suicide mission (which is why the defected Iraqi pilots are not doing it).

My advice would be for all civilian aircraft to give IS controlled territory a wide berth, as they would make very tempting targets for IS, and with the proliferation of commerical flight tracking apps and software, IS doesn't even need a radar to find, ID and track them.

Needless to say, I would also strongly suggest governments shut down all those programmes and apps as they serve no real useful purpose to the general public, and waiting for an airliner to be shot down before acting is way too late.

Other than shooting down airliners, the other obvious use for fighters would be a 9/11 style suicide attack.

I suppose we are a little fortunate in that there isn't a whole lot of tall commerical buildings left standing in the region, the closest would probably be Dubai and the UEA. There are many military installations, like air bases, but those should be fairly well defended against air attacks, and would also make far harder targets to fly into.

On balance, I still think the greatest threat is to civilian airlines.
 
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