ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)
- Thread starter Jeff Head
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kwaigonegin
Colonel
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!
As much as I hate to admit it but you're right. This is a case of choosing the lesser of two evils and Iran is definitely the lesser when compared to ISIS..... certainly for the sake of the average Iraqi citizen.
The fact is when we went in to remove Saddam a huge power vacuum was created and with the disbanding of the Baathist party and the elimination of pretty much everyone up top that vaccum was sooner or later going to be filled by islamic radicals.
The Bush admin and to a certain extend the Obama admin were too naive to think that that vacumm will be filled by some western leaning pro democracy group or leader. Not going to happen! The crisis with Assad, the fall of Mubarak, the Arab Spring etc are ALL connected to our invasion of Iraq.. those events just refuel and cause immense resurgence in the terrorist communities especially on the Sunni side. No doubt about it. Butterfly effect if you will.
What we should've done after 9/11 was to go all out into Afghanistan and terminate all AQ and it's affiliates install a puppet government and come home. Should never have set foot in Iraq.. but that's ancient history. It is what it is and we have to face the realities of today.
As much as I hate to admit it but you're right. This is a case of choosing the lesser of two evils and Iran is definitely the lesser when compared to ISIS..... certainly for the sake of the average Iraqi citizen.
The fact is when we went in to remove Saddam a huge power vacuum was created and with the disbanding of the Baathist party and the elimination of pretty much everyone up top that vaccum was sooner or later going to be filled by islamic radicals.
The Bush admin and to a certain extend the Obama admin were too naive to think that that vacumm will be filled by some western leaning pro democracy group or leader. Not going to happen! The crisis with Assad, the fall of Mubarak, the Arab Spring etc are ALL connected to our invasion of Iraq.. those events just refuel and cause immense resurgence in the terrorist communities especially on the Sunni side. No doubt about it. Butterfly effect if you will.
What we should've done after 9/11 was to go all out into Afghanistan and terminate all AQ and it's affiliates install a puppet government and come home. Should never have set foot in Iraq.. but that's ancient history. It is what it is and we have to face the realities of today.
Re: Persian Gulf & Middle East News & Views
ISIS is sponsored by Saudi Arabia, they are Sunni terrorists and the enemies of Shiite Iran which is why they are fighting the Assad government in Syria who is allied with Iran. There is zero chance of co-operation between the two camps.
If the Islamic extremists continue to be pre-occupied with each other then that's great for the rest of us. But if one side is to prevail then I would bet on the Sunni Saudi-led camp having the edge over the Iran-led Shiite camp given that the Saudis have un-embargoed access to all the world's weapons exporters, a much better economic position, and the practical blind-eye they have from most Western governments including the US.
ISIS is sponsored by Saudi Arabia, they are Sunni terrorists and the enemies of Shiite Iran which is why they are fighting the Assad government in Syria who is allied with Iran. There is zero chance of co-operation between the two camps.
If the Islamic extremists continue to be pre-occupied with each other then that's great for the rest of us. But if one side is to prevail then I would bet on the Sunni Saudi-led camp having the edge over the Iran-led Shiite camp given that the Saudis have un-embargoed access to all the world's weapons exporters, a much better economic position, and the practical blind-eye they have from most Western governments including the US.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!
Unruly children are a result of parents being inconsistent. Yeah Saddam's mighty military that was propagandized as one of the world's strongest folded easily but who promoted it as a threat (and imminent) as to justify the war? This is another case of the wacky foreign policy of the-enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend-until-you-run-out-your-usefulness-and-now-who-was-my-friend-is-now-my-enemy-and-who-was-my-enemy-is-now-my-friend-who-have-friends-I-don't-like. Iran sending troops into Iraq which probably helps Assad in Syria which infuriates Saudi Arabia and so on and so on...
Like I mentioned in the South China Seas thread ironically Obama saw China as the most manageable out all the world's problems the US sees. Obama wasn't going to end the terrorist threat. He had to go somewhere he thought he could actually do things and make history. And yeah, he's going to make history but completely opposite of what he thought.
Unruly children are a result of parents being inconsistent. Yeah Saddam's mighty military that was propagandized as one of the world's strongest folded easily but who promoted it as a threat (and imminent) as to justify the war? This is another case of the wacky foreign policy of the-enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend-until-you-run-out-your-usefulness-and-now-who-was-my-friend-is-now-my-enemy-and-who-was-my-enemy-is-now-my-friend-who-have-friends-I-don't-like. Iran sending troops into Iraq which probably helps Assad in Syria which infuriates Saudi Arabia and so on and so on...
Like I mentioned in the South China Seas thread ironically Obama saw China as the most manageable out all the world's problems the US sees. Obama wasn't going to end the terrorist threat. He had to go somewhere he thought he could actually do things and make history. And yeah, he's going to make history but completely opposite of what he thought.
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Re: Persian Gulf & Middle East News & Views
However, from the later reports (also mentioned since that post on this thread) it is apparent that the Iranians are in fact sending Qud battalions into Iraq to fight the ISIS.
This was already discussed after my post...and answered. I said Iran might try and co-opt the ISIS. That does not mean join them.
However, from the later reports (also mentioned since that post on this thread) it is apparent that the Iranians are in fact sending Qud battalions into Iraq to fight the ISIS.
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!
No Pan, your post is an example of grown men, not allowing Barack Obama to be a grown man and accept the responsibility for his own policies and actions, he and he alone, orchestrated the abandonment of Iraq, as well as re-engaged in Afghanistan, which will very shortly lead to the new governments abandonment, and a chorus of enablers will continue parroting "zombie like", its George Bush's fault, its George Bush's fault....... When does Barack Obama stop getting a pass on his failed policy, and take responsibility like a grown man, HE has been President of the United States for 6 years now!
This is not partisan, this is real life, where grown men have to face their own problems!
No Pan, your post is an example of grown men, not allowing Barack Obama to be a grown man and accept the responsibility for his own policies and actions, he and he alone, orchestrated the abandonment of Iraq, as well as re-engaged in Afghanistan, which will very shortly lead to the new governments abandonment, and a chorus of enablers will continue parroting "zombie like", its George Bush's fault, its George Bush's fault....... When does Barack Obama stop getting a pass on his failed policy, and take responsibility like a grown man, HE has been President of the United States for 6 years now!
This is not partisan, this is real life, where grown men have to face their own problems!
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: Persian Gulf & Middle East News & Views
The same players, the same game, just a expanding ball park. Iran will back and send its Quds to slowly puppet the Iraqi state government into a extension of the grand Islamic Republic.
ISIS and AQ will push as far as it can to establish a Caliphate and the Kurds, Christians and Jews stuck in the middle will be fighting both sides just to survive.
The same players, the same game, just a expanding ball park. Iran will back and send its Quds to slowly puppet the Iraqi state government into a extension of the grand Islamic Republic.
ISIS and AQ will push as far as it can to establish a Caliphate and the Kurds, Christians and Jews stuck in the middle will be fighting both sides just to survive.
Re: Persian Gulf & Middle East News & Views
This should be the time for Erdogan to change sides. Turkey and Iran are in the best position to intervene together and thus prevent the other of winning control over Iraq. Together they can end the trouble in Syria. The losers would be the sponsors of the terrorists in Syria and Iraq, in the first place Saudi Arabia, and of course the Kurds in Northern Iraq. Would Erdogan have the guts to do this? How would the US react to such a reversal of alliances?
This should be the time for Erdogan to change sides. Turkey and Iran are in the best position to intervene together and thus prevent the other of winning control over Iraq. Together they can end the trouble in Syria. The losers would be the sponsors of the terrorists in Syria and Iraq, in the first place Saudi Arabia, and of course the Kurds in Northern Iraq. Would Erdogan have the guts to do this? How would the US react to such a reversal of alliances?
thunderchief
Senior Member
Re: Persian Gulf & Middle East News & Views
What appalled me the most is how quickly new Iraqi army disintegrated and retreated. In comparison, Saddam' s army wasn't best in the world, but I don't think they would fold so quickly . All of this brings back memories of Fall of Saigon in 1975. Looks like western trained armies could not function without decisive air support . Iraqi Air Force did not yet receive F-16s they ordered and according to rumors first few Russian Mi-35s arrived just days ago (too little too late ) .
What appalled me the most is how quickly new Iraqi army disintegrated and retreated. In comparison, Saddam' s army wasn't best in the world, but I don't think they would fold so quickly . All of this brings back memories of Fall of Saigon in 1975. Looks like western trained armies could not function without decisive air support . Iraqi Air Force did not yet receive F-16s they ordered and according to rumors first few Russian Mi-35s arrived just days ago (too little too late ) .
Re: Persian Gulf & Middle East News & Views
They could easily say they were ensuring that Iraq did not fall into the hands of Al Queda and were helping stop that to protect NATO interests...and at the same time keep Iran from gaining all the prestige and power from stopping it.
This plan might actually be something Obama could go with because it would be the epitomy of his "leading from behind," strategy of letting others take the risk.
I do not think Turkey would have to "switch alliances," at all to do what you propose.
They could easily say they were ensuring that Iraq did not fall into the hands of Al Queda and were helping stop that to protect NATO interests...and at the same time keep Iran from gaining all the prestige and power from stopping it.
This plan might actually be something Obama could go with because it would be the epitomy of his "leading from behind," strategy of letting others take the risk.