ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

I am.....suspicious. The timing is too close to the movements of the Turkish army on the border. Not going to spout conspiracy theories, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's more here than meets the eye.

The Reuters article in Jura's second post describes the Kurds as 'anti-government.' Right. And I guess that the SAA are Good friends of IS, by that logic.

Sadly, even if it was the Russians who bombed the hospital, they can use the USAF in Kunduz as a shield. And protests to the contrary will weaken as a result.

since you quoted me: what's the message you try to convey? are you implying fake(s), false flag operation(s), ...?
just tell me, am sitting in the pub and will read it (don't worry, I'm not gullible, and I post both in seemingly anti-East and anti-West directions for example I was (among) the first to post
Oct 3, 2015
looks like a major ... mess up:
Possible US airstrike in Afghanistan kills at least 19 at Doctors Without Borders hospital

source:
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
I am.....suspicious. The timing is too close to the movements of the Turkish army on the border. Not going to spout conspiracy theories, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's more here than meets the eye.

The Turks are itching to go in on the ground.

That kind of build up and planning would not have gone unnoticed by the Russians.

I am very confident that there are all sorts of moves and counters being played out at all levels behind the scenes, with the Turks sending out feelers to see how their friends and allies might react and lobbying for support; while the Russians are doing their level best to try and convince everyone, including and especially Turkey, that it will be a very bad idea, but also putting in place assets to help give them options if Turkey does go ahead with its foolish plans.

Our best hope is that Erdogan (Egodan probably suits him better tbh) realises he has zero support, expect from Saudi Arabia and their clique, and comes to his senses before jumping off the deep end.

Failing that, NATO and the west should leave him flapping him the breeze and let him get a good dose of reality from the Russians and then move in to reign things in before anything more than Egodan's ego is totally destroyed.
 

Skye_ZTZ_113

Junior Member
Registered Member
since you quoted me: what's the message you try to convey? are you implying fake(s), false flag operation(s), ...?
just tell me, am sitting in the pub and will read it (don't worry, I'm not gullible, and I post both in seemingly anti-East and anti-West directions for example I was (among) the first to post
Oct 3, 2015

It was this article, and was reading it:
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''The town of Azaz has been the scene of fierce fighting as Kurdish anti-government forces advance from the west.''

I can't say much without evidence, but since the Kurds around Azaz have been shelled by Turkish artillery.....it is not so much a stretch for Azaz itself to be attacked. A false flag would be great for the Turkish to go and use R2P as their justification to move in.

''Residents in both towns blamed Russian strikes, saying the planes deployed were more numerous and the munitions more powerful than the Syrian military typically used.'' There are other countries with that kind of firepower/numbers too, so solely blaming the Russians when the Turkish airforce is just round the corner is a bit of a stretch. But I'm already too deep into speculation territory. Let's just see how it goes. I'm inclined to believe that Plawolf has got the right prediction of the outcome. Though imho we can't rule out some form of NATO support if Turkish military facilities (on Turkish soil) get bombed in retaliation by the Russians.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Turkish troops literally sat on a hilltop and pretty much just passed around the popcorn as ISIS laid seize to, and then all but razed Kobane without lifting a finger to help the civilians trapped within or attack the terrorists in clear view.

They did nothing while ISIS held Azaz, but as soon as the Kurds drove the terrorists out they start shelling.

Yeah clearly they are only interested in fighting ISIS and its the Russians who are just bombing everyone. :rolleyes:

Notice how the western media has adopted the new party line of calling the Kurds anti-government forces now, to try and lend the Turkish actions some semblance of legitimacy, when in fact all the signs on the grounds point to the Kurds effectively acting as allies of Assad and the Russians.

Russia gets called out on a near daily basis by the western governments and media for bombing non-ISIS armed groups, but when Turkey does it, these same western governments and the 'free' western media suddenly goes deathly silent on that point. Funny how the 'free' media can be so well co-ordinated isn't it?
 
... But I'm already too deep into speculation territory. ...
yeah I think this type of posts will get deleted :)
in the meantime I found the video which purports to show the other attack, I mean the one from
allegedly Russians bombed a hospital south to
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today ...
it's (nothing graphic)
and the airplane shows from 10th to 12th second; my screenshot:
t6wOE.jpg

now I'm going to look into the Azaz attack
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Like many others, I am very skeptical of the claims about hospital bombings being made, especially as all appear to be in areas already under Turkish bombardment or otherwise well within reach of Turkish Artillery of border firing aviation.

If this fails to suitably send the public into a frothing rage, expect to see injured pets with such headlines as "Putin bombed my Puppy" as the Cease Fire deadline approaches

It is all the more suspicious as the SAA are clearly not interested in advancing to the border and have even ceded territory to the Kurds today (SAA withdrew from Kafr Naya and let the Kurds move in and occupy it (while kicking out some rebels who thought they had just won a brilliant counter attack).

It seems to me that the SAA are drawing the line beyond the reach of Turkish Artillery and letting the Kurds fill the buffer zone. It makes sense as it prevents the danger of a direct clash and the Turks shelling the Kurds only unsettle NATO even more.

Just as (if not more) significantly it means that the SAA do not need to push to far and occupy territory North of the Salient, but instead use the Kurds to shorten the lines of engagement and therefore bring more troops the Southern front of the Salient and push ever harder to close the door on Aleppo..

The SAA have taken Misqan today, which shows that they are just cleaning up the pocket to the East and leaving all North of this for the Kurds.
I also understand that in Latakia, that the SAA are now starting to attack Kinsabba itself.
 

delft

Brigadier
From the US site Al Monitor:
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Can Turkey return as a player in Syria?
Syria has become the best-marketed commodity in Turkey, where all foreign policy issues are packaged for domestic consumption. Ankara appears, however, to have lost all perception of reality regarding anything to do with Syria, falling victim to Alice in Wonderland syndrome. The government has embarked on a surreal journey in trying to persuade the public that Turkey is winning, not losing, in Syria.

The first week in February, a coalition of the Syrian army, paramilitary forces from Iran, Hezbollah and Russian special forces, all supported by the
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, advanced from east of Aleppo to its north. Hearts skipped a beat in Ankara as Bashar al-Assad’s army laid siege to Aleppo, which had mostly been in rebel hands since 2012, and cut supply routes linking the opposition forces to Turkey. The risk of Kurdish forces moving west of the Euphrates River and reaching Afrin further heightened jitters in Ankara.

Last year, nothing went as Turkey would have liked in Syria. After its downing of a Russian warplane Nov. 24, Ankara lost all standing as an independent and effective playmaker on the ground and in the air in Syria. The siege of Aleppo, however, has set in motion another
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, providing Ankara an opportunity to strengthen its hand in Syria by intervening on the ground.

“This is the best time to enter Syria” has become the mantra of
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in Turkey. Their articles justify the call for military intervention by insisting that Turkey cannot allow a Kurdish buffer state on its border controlled by the United States and Russia. They further argue that Turkey must eliminate the threat posed by the Syrian Kurdish Democratic Union Party (PYD), that it cannot afford to remain out of the game in Syria and that a refugee enclave must be created inside Syria (without allowing refugees to cross into Turkey).

Some pro-intervention commentators cite these justifications to encourage Ankara to quickly intervene militarily in the Jarablus pocket, north of Azaz-Munbij line. Well-placed military sources in Ankara who requested anonymity told Al-Monitor that many key people in Ankara view the developments in Aleppo as the last chance for Turkey to make a comeback as an effective actor in Syria. They fear that if Ankara fails to use events in Aleppo to advance national interests, Turkey will be permanently sidelined in the Syrian game.

In May 2015, I had written in
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that the political decision-makers in Ankara were keen for military intervention, but the realistic and cool-headed approach of the Turkish military was serving as a brake on that course of action. The risks of a conventional military intervention, given the complex conflict dynamics in Syria, and the necessity of having international legitimacy for such an intervention drove the military's outlook. Do the latest developments in Syria increase the chances of a Turkish military intervention?

Ankara has to address five key issues before intervening. The first involves the simple, technical matter of air support for the operation. Without air support, it is impossible to launch a ground operation that could last months. Close air support is essential to protect ground forces with firepower, reconnaissance and surveillance, as well as evacuation and troop movements via helicopter. Improvised explosive devices and the risk of suicide bombers make roads unusable for frequent movements.

The issue then becomes whether Russia, which has declared a de facto no-fly zone over northern Syria, will allow Turkish planes and helicopters to enter Syrian airspace. The violation of Turkish airspace north of the Azaz-Munbij line Jan. 29 by a Russian Su-34 interceptor was an important signal of
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in this region.
If Russia won’t allow Turkish planes to enter Syrian airspace, might the United States be asked to provide air support for the Turkish ground operation? That would require Ankara to first persuade Washington and then the US administration to persuade the Russians.

Some ill-informed, and actually woeful, comments have been made suggesting that Turkey can provide the necessary fire support with its 25-mile-range artillery and multiple rocket launchers, eliminating the need for the air force. This option doesn’t sound realistic when one considers the possible duration and scope of the operation.

The second dimension concerns Turkey’s foreign policy choices. Although Ankara might get the support of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain for a ground operation, confronting the
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in Syria would make life difficult. It is unlikely that Turkey could launch an operation without the support of at least one of the two in the field.

The third issue involves a truly bitter pill that Ankara might soon have to swallow. To avoid confronting two enemies in a ground operation requires the field support of either the PYD or the Assad regime. The reality is that Ankara cannot declare the Islamic State, Assad’s army and the PYD enemies at the same time.

The fourth issue is the continuing clashes with the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) in Turkey’s southeast, the country's soft underbelly. It appears that Ankara-PYD relations are increasingly charting the course for that conflict. Hundreds of thousands of Kurds in Turkey are likely monitoring Ankara’s actions toward the PYD. It may well be reasonable to view northern Syria as the primary front of the Ankara-PKK clashes and the battles in the southeast as the secondary front. In such a situation, a Turkish operation in Syria could expand clashes in Turkey,
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.

The fifth issue to address is the nature of any military operation. The US experiences in Afghanistan and Iraq have demonstrated that no matter the cause of an intervention or its legitimacy, the paramount question that must be answered first is: How do we exit? The risks are high sending soldiers into an operational terrain like Syria's, where conditions change by the minute. Neglecting an exit strategy usually comes with heavy economic and political costs. Entry is not a major problem for the Turkish army, provided the political decision-makers in Ankara put some thought into how to stay there after entering and how to get out.
Two remarks:
First: I put one sentence in bold. This shows that air space above Syria is called
"Turkish airspace north of the Azaz-Munbij line".
Second: while Syria nor Russia has any military or political reason to go destroying hospitals in Northern Syria Turkey is looking for a R2P pretext to invade Syria.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Guys, STOP antagonistic posts about potential for direct fighting between Russia and Turkey with chest thumping on both sides.

Those posts deleted. More of that will lead to warnings and suspensions.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION
 
Like many others, I am very skeptical of the claims about hospital bombings being made, especially as all appear to be in areas already under Turkish bombardment or otherwise well within reach of Turkish Artillery of border firing aviation.

...
"all" as in south to Maarat al-Nu'man?

or this was "an exception" maybe?

now I searched yandex.ru ("Russian google") for
маарет-эн-нууман сирия (Maarat al-Nu'man Syria)
and ... nothing about yesterday, perhaps I'm just sloppy, since I recall
Thursday at 3:48 PM
I generally don't post RT stories but here's one of them:
US A-10s bombed city of Aleppo on Wednesday, shifted blame onto Moscow – Russian military
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and its denial:
U.S. says Russian reports of U.S. strikes in Aleppo are a fabrication
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