Is the US shooting itself in the foot by banning Huawei?

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weig2000

Captain
There is really no need to search for some obscure news talk in a local radio station. The national newspaper, New York Time, has a much detailed and comprehensive coverage of MWC in Barcelona, as well as the respective plights of Huawei team and US delegation. Pretty interesting to read.

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The American-led campaign against Huawei hung over the giant tech conference in Barcelona. But most attendees were focused instead on new mobile phones and ultrafast wireless networks.

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Feb. 27, 2019
BARCELONA, Spain — The Trump administration sent a delegation to Spain this week to make its case against the Chinese technology company Huawei at one of the world’s biggest tech trade shows.

But the event, called MWC Barcelona, ended up being favorable ground for the Chinese maker of telecom equipment.

Of the more than 100,000 attendees and 2,400 companies at the event, most ignored the efforts by the United States to impose a ban against Huawei for security and surveillance risks.


Instead, they chose to focus on the coming introduction of long-hyped next-generation wireless networks,
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, not to mention new foldable smartphones, robots and other internet-connected devices.

For Huawei, the enormous conference provided a much-needed opportunity to make a show of force after months of being on the defensive about the American-led campaign.

The company, accused of being an
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for the Chinese government, was ubiquitous in Barcelona. Huawei had the biggest and most popular booth, which looked like a sprawling indoor city that took up half of a convention hall. The booth featured a demonstration area for its new smartphones, an Instagram-ready digital pond, and a roaming robot. Its outdoor picnic area was catered with Iberian ham, Chinese meat buns, fresh fish and Mediterranean salads.

Even the lanyards worn by conference attendees were Huawei-branded.


MWC Barcelona is akin in scope and hype to the annual
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, one of the world’s largest consumer electronics events. MWC Barcelona fills eight conference halls with loud, sensory-overloading booths from companies including Samsung, Sony, Xiaomi, Microsoft, Nokia and Ericsson.

While overwhelmingly male, the event is more diverse than most tech conferences, with people from countries around the world attending. Walking around you heard people speaking English, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Spanish, Italian and Arabic.

On Tuesday, after Huawei’s chairman, Guo Ping, used a keynote speech to give a full-throated defense of the company, it hosted one of the week’s biggest parties on the grounds of a stadium that was used during the 1992 Olympics.

American officials were left to hold a hastily called news conference on Tuesday at a booth operated by the Spanish government. They didn’t present any new evidence against Huawei.

The conference previewed many of the hottest mobile trends, particularly the capabilities of new hyperfast 5G networks. For years, the technology has had more promise than actual uses. Executives said the faster networks would debut this year, with wider adoption coming in 2020 and beyond.

To show the utility of 5G, the Chinese company ZTE programmed a band of industrial robots to play piano and drums at the event to illustrate how the ultrafast networks can be used by heavy machinery. Flight simulators, car-racing games, drones and internet-connected beer kegs were also available for testing.

Jonathan Davidson, a senior vice president at wireless equipment provider Cisco Systems, said 5G was ready for prime time, and would enable new applications in augmented reality, health care and industrial factories.

“We’re now moving into an era where 5G has 10 times the amount of bandwidth available,” Mr. Davidson said. “That changes the equation.”

Makers of mobile phones are counting on 5G to ignite growth. Last year,
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for the first time since Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone in 2007.

Long a reliable engine of growth in the tech industry, smartphone demand is now sputtering. People are holding on to their devices longer, and there aren’t many new markets where smartphones aren’t already prevalent. More than five billion people worldwide now subscribe to a mobile phone plan, according to GSMA, the industry trade group.

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, many companies introduced new handsets at MWC Barcelona with prices that a few years ago would have seemed unfathomable. In Barcelona, Samsung showed its previously announced $2,000 Fold handset with a bendable display. Huawei has introduced a competing foldable device, called the Mate X, which will cost about $2,600 and be available around the middle of the year outside the United States.

“People are demanding more from their phones,” said Maxime Guirauton, a marketing director for Samsung in Europe. “Innovation comes at a price.”

Microsoft introduced a new augmented reality headset, HoloLens 2, which costs $3,500 and is targeted more at businesses than general consumers. People formed long lines to try the gear, including using the goggles in a demonstration to fix water-sanitation equipment.

Google also had a large presence at the show, with its Android software powering the noteworthy new handsets unveiled in Barcelona. The internet company scattered people around the conference dressed in white jumpsuits to help show off the Google Assistant virtual assistant.

Standing at the Samsung booth, Carolina Milanesi, an industry analyst with Creative Strategies, said it was hard to judge how new products introduced this week would fare with customers. Success for gadgets such as a foldable phone will depend on whether there are applications that people are eager to use.

“That’s what’s going to determine whether this is a niche, a fad or mass market,” she said.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
The excuse of banning Huawei on the ground of espionage reminds me of the case where Angela Merkel's mobile phone was tapped. Who did that? Chinese intelligence using Huawei's cell tower and routers? Or some "honest" country using their "honest" routers?

Googling "Cisco router backdoor" will return around TEN well-known cases where different backdoors in Cisco routers being shipped all over the world. Each and every case has the nature of the backdoor well explained.

The most funny thing is that LI "feature" (legal interception) was proposed by Cisco into IETF (Internet standard body). This is a spying "feature" that government can log in the router and intercept data stream by redirecting them anywhere they want. One may argue for "well established accountability" in the western legal system by means of the "holy" court of law. Think again, this "feature" does NOT leave any trace behind. It is by design. So even operators have no clue who has ever used it, what has been intercepted, which customer has been targeted. That blows the whole "accountability".

Shouldn't these "honest" people talk about "Cisco concern" or NSA spying decades ago? Why NOW jump on Huawei when they have absolutely nothing to prove while they themselves are red-handed. It is called "贼喊著贼"/"thief calling to catch thief", in English "Pot Calling the Kettle Black".

What is certain today is that after more than a year of pressing campaign conducted by this "honest" country, it failed to provide a single piece of evidence even after its western "allies" stated things like "we will consider the impact of security concern around Huawei based on fact" (the Austria or Germany). British GCHQ (NSA equivalent) has also stated "the Huawei concern is manageable".

Really, some people really burry their head in the sand and keep on fooling themselves hoping in the mean time to fool others. If they think doing so will help their country's future, they are doomed.:rolleyes: I won't feel sorry for them.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Regarding the "Australia has less problem with cutting out Huawei than UK because Australia is more conservative (towards Huawei)". Let me just say this it is more of good long term relationship between Australian's operator (Telstra) and Ericsson which continued from 3G into 4G when Huawei was nothing (therefor concern was not an issue) in 3G outside of China. Ericsson continues to be strongly preferred in Australia because of the history.
 

Jono

Junior Member
Registered Member
Huawei is on top of the 5G competition at the present, and the lead will further widen in the years to come, because of the following factors, in my humble opinion:
massive R&D investments,
plenty of engineering talents to draw from, ( millions of engineering graduates per year in China )
hard working ethics prevalent in the Chinese culture,
willingness to co-operate in less rewarding contracts,
huge internal market of 1.4 billion people in China, many of whom are tech savvy.
Difficult to imagine how Huawei's competitors can compete against the above.
 
now I read
03:29, 02-Mar-2019
Canada allows extradition hearing of Huawei’s Meng Wanzhou to proceed
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Canada's
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released a statement today that saying that they would allow the extradition hearing of Huawei executive Meng Wangzhou to the United States to proceed.

Meng, the chief financial officer of the Chinese company Huawei, was detained in Canada in December 2018 after the United States utilized it's extradition treaty with Canada on charges of bank and wire fraud in the U.S.

Meng denies any wrongdoing.

“Canada is a country governed by the rule of law. Extradition in Canada is guided by the Extradition Act, international treaties and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which enshrines constitutional principles of fairness and due process,” Canada's Justice Department said.

“The decision follows a thorough and diligent review of the evidence in this case. The Department is satisfied that the requirements set out by the Extradition Act for the issuance of an Authority to Proceed have been met and there is sufficient evidence to be put before an extradition judge for decision.”

The extradition proceedings are scheduled for March 6, 2019, when Canadian government officials will argue their case.

“An extradition hearing is not a trial nor does it render a verdict of guilt or innocence. If a person is ultimately extradited from Canada to face prosecution in another country, the individual will have a trial in that country,” the Justice Department statement said.

Meng will remain out on bail during the proceedings.

According to Canada's Justice Department, if the extradition judge makes a decision in favor of extradition, the Minister of Justice will have to decide if that person should be extradited to the requesting country.

“Under the Extradition Act and the Treaty, Canada must review the alleged conduct and determine whether it could have resulted in a jail sentence of 1 year of more if it had taken place in Canada. The conduct for which extradition is sought must also be considered criminal in both the United States of America and in Canada. This is known as “dual criminality”,” the statment also said.

“Canada's extradition process protects the rights of the person sought by ensuring that extradition will not be granted if, among other things, it is contrary to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, including the principles of fundamental justice.”
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Seeing Canada blab about rule of law or due process is almost as sad as seeing North Korea blab about democracy.

So will China move on to capturing American spies now?

Pathetic regime to kidnap a civilian’s daughter because they can’t compete with his private family company.

What’s next, kidnap Chinese directions and force them to make a movie for Trump?
 
now I read
Xinhua Headlines: 5G-themed industry summit advocates fair competition, cooperation
Xinhua| 2019-03-01 12:44:43
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From automated cars to remote surgeries, futuristic scenarios have been pictured here in the 2019 Mobile World Congress (MWC) where 5G technology is in the spotlight.

To make changes happen, digital infrastructure, namely 5G network construction in the next phase, is essential to enable a super fast Internet that connects everything from everywhere.

In the construction process, fair competition as well as robust cooperation among mobile operators worldwide are critical to making the vision into reality, experts said.

COMPETITION DRIVES INNOVATION

By 2025, mobile operators are expected to invest between 300 billion and 500 billion euros (341.67 billion and 569.46 billion U.S. dollars) on the rollout of 5G across Europe, and as an industry will create over 4 percent of the entire economic output, according to GSMA, an organization representing over 750 operators and generating the MWC.

"Actions that disrupt the equipment supply for the various segments of the network (access, transport and core) will increase costs to European operators, businesses and citizens; delay 5G deployment by years across Europe," said GSMA in a statement shortly before the MWC.

In essence, GSMA is calling for more, not fewer, industry players to be allowed in the bidding process and help build infrastructure.

"Competition amongst equipment vendors has been a major driver of innovation; limiting or stalling the deployment of 5G or requiring changes to existing 4G infrastructure, risks leaving European consumers and businesses behind; and investment and innovation will move to those countries where 5G is happening first and fastest, impacting jobs and growth," it said.

China's Huawei, Sweden's Ericsson and Finland's Nokia are the three biggest suppliers of telecommunications equipment, while China's ZTE and South Korea's Samsung have smaller market share, according to research firm Dell'Oro Group.

"If we concentrate it down to two players, I think that's an unhealthy position not just for us as an industry but also for national infrastructure in the country," said Nick Read, CEO of Vodafone, one of the world's largest mobile operators.

NO EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING

Discussions on inclusive competition are highlighted here because of the recent U.S. attempts to drive Huawei, a leading privately held company in 5G network construction, out of the market, despite the lack of evidence of Huawei's alleged wrongdoing to its customers.

"Like everyone else in the industry, I'm monitoring the findings of those investigations. Many service providers have told me several times they have never found anything wrong," Stephane Teral, executive director of research and analysis and an advisor for Mobile Infrastructure and Carrier Economics at IHS Markit, told Xinhua while attending the MWC.

Earlier this month, Robert Hannigan, former head of Britain's Government Communications Headquarters, wrote in the Financial Times that "assertions that any Chinese technology in any part of a 5G network represents an unacceptable risk are nonsense."

On Feb. 20, Ciaran Martin, head of Britain's National Cyber Security Center, said in Brussels that oversight of Huawei is functioning and even problems identified with Huawei do not indicate any hostility.

"As we said then, and repeat today, these problems are about standard of cyber security; they are not indicators of hostile activity by China," Martin said.

"The apparent decision by the UK to proceed with Huawei, if confirmed, is a very, very big deal," Jeffrey D. Sachs, a world-renowned economist at Columbia University, told Xinhua.

"It would have an enormous effect around the world in pushing back against the U.S. attempt to isolate Huawei," Sachs said.

COOPERATION BENEFICIAL

Back in China, Ericsson and Nokia, Huawei's two largest foreign competitors, have maintained cooperation with Chinese companies.

On Tuesday, Ericsson announced a 5G smart harbor at the Port of Qingdao with China Unicom, one of China's major mobile operator. The company is particularly strong in mobile communications in China, with nearly half the market for mobile systems.

In November 2018, Nokia announced three separate frame agreements worth a combined value of more than 2 billion euros (2.28 billion dollars) with China Mobile, China Telecom and China Unicom, all state-owned companies.

A multi-partner presence is also a valued approach for the city of Moscow, Andrey Belozerov, a senior advisor to the Chief Information Officer of Moscow City Government, told Xinhua.

"We work with different companies, including Huawei. We do not have any fear in relation to one company or another. When selecting partners, we evaluate quality and reliability of the products they produce and services they provide," Belozerov said.

"We believe that international cooperation in the sphere of developing new expensive technologies is necessary and extremely beneficial," he said.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Tell me what law is enacted in Australia that is similar to the 2017 National Security Law as enacted in China. .

Wow! You do cherry picked you answers.
I've mentioned that security is the same for all countries, and how all countries conduct espionage. And that almost (notice the use of the word "almost") all countries would've laws that request information to be handed over to their respective agencies!
And you cherry picked this with one line question about your country Australia.

This question just goes to show how arrogant, ignorant, stupid or combination of all three from people in the "free world"!

It's arrogant because it assumed that the questioner belived that their country always treat their citezen with respect (because they are a "democracy and free" after all) would not even contemplate having such law that requires information to be given over to the security services.

It's ignorant that the questioner wasn't even aware that their country DO have such law enforcement requirements !

It's stupid that the questioner felt it necessary to ask me to proof such a law exist!

As I've said before in this forum, I'm a lecturer. And one of the things I teach is system theory. System theory suggest systems are open or closed.

An open system will go on to adapt and thrives whereas closed system will be unable to adapt and will be terminal.

We are here to discuss and learn off each other. And we can only do that if we have an opened mind! So please open yours instead of living in a fantasy dream utopia that's in your head.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
I will not dispute the facts of the case that you mentioned because in fact it reinforces the points that I will be making. If there is any comfort, I am more than willing to concede that in history a lot of countries including the European powers had taken advantage of other nations for its personal gain. The point is the world has moved on and its cognizant that many of past practices are unacceptable and should not be repeated. Weaker nations should be able to compete in a more level playing field. This means regulatory framework within which nations are expected to behave and to compete with adjudication and mediation mechanism to resolve disputes e.g. WTO.


There is an important distinction in bringing up the history of Huawei's past behaviour because the conversation is about specific vendor risk. Its past behaviour is an important consideration in making an overall determination of risk. It is no different if you were considering a specific vendor and its services. Its past performance record would be an important factor.

Australia's assessment of Huawei as a security risk is not a recent event arising from the US position. Even going back to 2012 when Australia was undergoing telecommunication upgrades, Huawei was excluded from some projects and consequently our communication infrastructure is not as embedded with Huawei equipment unlike the UK. The problem with UK currently is that if they were to exclude Huawei in 5G, they would have a lot of integration issues of decoupling Huawei equipment. It is a significant economic hit. Fortunately for Auatralia we don't have such a problem with Huawei equipment for the reason mentioned. Australia has a very conservative position when it comes to security.

And just when did Trump use your valued law based institution to slap tariff on China and it's European allies?
 
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