Is the US shooting itself in the foot by banning Huawei?

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drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
If you've got nothing to add to the topic, that's what the "like" button is for, Brat.

The person who says what you want to hear isn't automatically the guy who "balanced everything and came up with the truth." Seeing as how you've never been to modern China and most likely don't even have meaningful conversations with Chinese people, your opinion on the "truth" here can be completely discounted as the imagination of an old patriotic American.

And he said absolutely nothing about your false freedoms, which, for some reason, you like to allude to in every conversation spanning from J-20 to trade war...
It is a joke when someone has nothing of value to say they will allude to "freedom" as a filler XD
 

zgx09t

Junior Member
Registered Member
Spot on here Dude, but nobody's going to honor your honest assessments. Honestly there are a great many changes everywhere, but freedom is still worth fighting for. Thank you for your integrity, its nice to see someone try to balance all the narratives and come up with the truth...

Honor, honesty,freedom,integrity,truth ... as if those words have the same and equally measurable import for all, as if spoken by a bearded old dude with an outstretched arm reaching down from above.

If you think the scourge of slavery ended in 1865, take a moment and ponder over what is happening in the country.
Freedom for who, of what, from which?

All men are created equal,[ he owned several hundred slaves as he panned it], provided they are male landed gentry not the imported slaves, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, to maximize profits, to exploit native resources to the fullest, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, for us as we see fit from sea to shining sea, murdering and pillaging who and what is already here fully reserved.

Smell like the same old freedom?
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
You have chosen to live here in the US in order to enjoy the "freedoms" this great Nation offers, he was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of you living here and enjoying those same freedoms, while continuously and constantly criticizing this great country which continues to offer you so much opportunity...

If it were half as bad as you continue to "babble on" about, you would have left a long time ago.......

which just makes my point, the United States offers you the personal and economic freedom that cannot and will never be found anywhere else!

but you've got to resort to personal attacks and name calling like a toddler, because you disagree, with me agreeing with him?

There is absolutely no hypocrisy here. If you thought there was, it's because you didn't read my posts clearly and probably came away with the conclusion that I said, "It's terrible to live in the US; everyone should move to China where it's nicer."

I'm not enjoying any particular freedoms here that I wouldn't have in China. The humorous part is Americans like you who see the huge material benefits offered to American citizens compared with other countries and somehow assume that they came for the "freedom"! It's like an old man who hands of bags of candy at the park to children if they agree to sit and chat with him for 5 minutes and then conclude that the children are doing so because kids naturally love his personality!
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Equation it's NOT a straw man when AFB refers to what you put as quote unquote freedom

in the US there's a freedom in what people read or watch or search in Internet, and in continental China there isn't a freedom in what people read or watch or search in Internet

(I like both of you, that's why I'm making this post, not because of bickering)

Straw man would be an upgrade for him. I'm saying he doesn't even know what he means when he says "freedom" as is evident by the fact that he completely ignored hkbc's post asking him about it.

Those "freedoms" are absolutely false as a claim of superiority. There are different kinds of freedom offered in different countries. In some areas, the US law is more lax while in other areas, Chinese law is more lax. In China, you cannot assemble against the government. In the US, you can, but if it's effective, you will be forcefully disbanded. In China, drug traffickers are executed; in the US, they will be let out to roam free again. In China, your driving days are restricted by license plate number; in the US, a 20 year old can enlist in the military and kill people but can't legally drink alcohol.

The laws or "freedoms" are not in my consideration for where I chose to live or visit because all the things I do are reasonable and normal. I don't feel at all restricted in China by its laws nor its internet firewalls because I don't go online to read conspiracies. And I will not let go unanswered fanciful arrogant claims of "freedom" by old men who have gone to none of the places he somehow sees fit to lecture others about.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
I've been to ROC for a couple of weeks. Great people, very hard working. Come to think of it, it's about time I plan a vacation to the mainland.

Although, to get a proper perspective one would need to stay there for work and get immersed in the culture. In the meantime, I occasionally follow YouTube channels of westerners living in PRC.

I'm afraid it's rather difficult for a foreigner to properly gauge China at all despite going there. I've seen some of the Youtube videos of foreigner experiences in China and I usually cringe. Chinese people will automatically put on a superficial face when interacting with foreigners. You will hardly ever get meaningful conversation. You're getting more heart-to-heart online from people who don't see faces. Of course, if you want to go to China to see if the ghost cities are really a problem or if the high speed rails are truly empty as some Western economists claim, then you will get a better understanding on that, of course.

So, yes, "ants know their place, but in return for their obedience the elites take good care of them. While the social contract lasts, the society prospers." That's pretty much how all society everywhere functions to some degree. It's not particularly like or unlike Japan but more associated with level of urbanization as this speed of work with relatively little return or personal time is characteristic of large metropolis' all over the world. But the differences come in the level of social mobility and national ambition. In China, those "ants" work for themselves hoping to gain enough insight to one day become an elite, and while the most direct form of sustenance comes from the "care" or salary provided to them by the "elites", the long term goal is to strengthen the society as a whole so there's more in the system for everyone.
 
Straw man would be an upgrade for him. I'm saying he doesn't even know what he means when he says "freedom" as is evident by the fact that he completely ignored hkbc's post asking him about it.

Those "freedoms" are absolutely false as a claim of superiority. There are different kinds of freedom offered in different countries. In some areas, the US law is more lax while in other areas, Chinese law is more lax. In China, you cannot assemble against the government. In the US, you can, but if it's effective, you will be forcefully disbanded. In China, drug traffickers are executed; in the US, they will be let out to roam free again. In China, your driving days are restricted by license plate number; in the US, a 20 year old can enlist in the military and kill people but can't legally drink alcohol.

The laws or "freedoms" are not in my consideration for where I chose to live or visit because all the things I do are reasonable and normal. I don't feel at all restricted in China by its laws nor its internet firewalls because I don't go online to read conspiracies. And I will not let go unanswered fanciful arrogant claims of "freedom" by old men who have gone to none of the places he somehow sees fit to lecture others about.
OK I also have issues with AFB (mostly F-35 Project, LOL) so I'll press 'Like' just to finish this debate, right after this:

I lived under Communists,
wild 1990s came,
then went to the US (where LOL! I had briefly tried to pursue American dream until failed),
came back to what's more or less typical EU country,
and I'm telling you the most important thing is the freedom of choice

as I said, I like both you and AFB; I'm done.
 

weig2000

Captain
Let's get back to topic.

This week, the battleground in the US vs Huawei is at the annual Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, Spain. Both the US and Huawei send large teams, with obviously different specialties. They will make their respective arguments for or against Huawei to government officials and telecom executives attending the conference. We'll assess how this round will go after all will be said and done.

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Officials to lobby against Chinese company at world’s biggest telecoms trade show

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in London and
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in Washington 9 hours ago

Mobile World Congress, which will draw 100,000 people from across the telecoms industry to Barcelona as it opens on Sunday, is the biggest event in the annual calendar for the Chinese company Huawei.

Huawei has booked out a huge stand at the show, and will unveil its new generation of mobile phones. Ren Zhengfei, its founder, and rotating chairmen Ken Hu and Guo Ping will all attend.

But this year it is facing what some industry executives have dubbed “the Battle of Barcelona”. Lined up against the Chinese company will be several delegations of US government officials, seeking to convince industry groups and telecoms operators to drop Huawei from the next generation of mobile internet infrastructure because of security concerns.

As well as officials from the Federal Communications Commission, there will be representatives from the Department of Defense, the Department of Commerce and a “big delegation” from the Department of State, which is co-ordinating the lobbying push, according to several people involved in the arrangements. One senior telecoms executive said MWC is turning into a “referendum on Huawei”.

A US official said: “There is a huge American delegation going this time. The difficulty they will have is persuading the Europeans to take action on the basis of intelligence we might not be able to share.”

In the past week, anticipating further action from Washington, Huawei has markedly stepped up its rhetoric and struck a more aggressive tone, with Mr Ren giving a series of television interviews and saying that the US will not be able to crush Huawei.

Donald Trump, US president, has been giving mixed signals. On Friday, he said he did not want to block foreign 5G equipment, suggesting he has rejected the advice of those advocating a ban to stop US telecoms companies from buying Huawei goods at all.

Mr Trump added that he could include Huawei and its domestic rival ZTE in any future trade deal, despite the efforts of some in his administration to keep the Huawei issue separate from US-China trade talks.

“If that means that he [Trump] got what he wants and Huawei is allowed to live its life then who knows what this army of people [US government officials] will be saying,” remarked one telecoms executive.

Huawei hopes to move the dispute over its involvement in European telecoms networks back on to more technical ground. From the basement of the Savoy hotel in London in the days running up to MWC it held a four-way 5G call with executives from Vodafone, EE and Three.

The trick was described by one person in the meeting as akin to a “dog walking on two legs” but it also showed that Huawei equipment is already being used in Britain’s nascent 5G mobile networks.

Huawei also revealed a host of advanced telecoms communications equipment for 5G deployment including antennas a third of the size of 4G equivalents, smaller mobile phone masts that cost a third less to install and products under the banner of “pervasive intelligence” that included its own chipsets used to speed up switching within a data centre and more advanced CCTV cameras.

The company boasted of its 87,805 patents, 80,000 research engineers and ‎€11.1bn spend on research and development in 2018, more than US technology giants Intel and Apple, making it the fifth-largest investor in research in the world.

But the message was really aimed at Europe’s telecoms companies as it detailed the power consumption, construction and deployment savings of each piece of equipment it unveiled.

John Delaney, an analyst with IDC, said that the combined effect of Huawei’s 5G announcements was to show how European telecoms networks, already struggling with high costs and low margins, could lower the total cost of ownership of running their network by deploying their equipment for 5G. “Huawei is working hard to build an extremely persuasive case not to exclude it,” he added. The Chinese company argues that using its equipment will significantly lower the cost of running networks.

Ahead of MWC, Huawei’s case was finding favour with several telecoms operators, who are fearful that a ban on the Chinese company’s equipment would not only slow down the launch of 5G but cause major disruption as existing Huawei kit, designed to work with 5G networks, has to be replaced on masts and rooftops in cities.

One chief technology officer at a major network estimated that the equipment on between 200,000 and 250,000 masts across Europe would need to be overhauled should a continent-wide ban be enforced. “For Europe, this would be a really grim choice,” he said.
 
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