Is the US shooting itself in the foot by banning Huawei?

gelgoog said:

With ARM you basically pay a license for the architecture, or for the processor designs. Once you have the license you are good to go.

Click to expand...

You'll be fine for one generation of the ARM architecture. After that, you'll be vulnerable to Trump's whims. I'm not sure whether the Nikkei article mentioned it, but the Arm China deal includes the rights to all future ARM generations. That was probably the reason for the deal.

(In case anybody's confused, the deal was only for ARM's China subsidiary, not for all of ARM.)

Another architecture which is gaining some traction on the data center is RISC-V. But the barrier to entry for someone like ZTE is a lot higher. You need to make your own chip design, probably software support too, only the ISA is readily available.

Click to expand...

RISC-V is a lot like ARM, even to having two distinct instruction sets!

Imagination Technologies is also a UK company.

Click to expand...

Oops, not American. Serves me right for using my memory only.

In fact, they are mostly threading water, they lost Apple as a customer and they don't have any other large clients that I know of. MIPS is mostly dead too. AFAIK they are now owned by a Chinese venture fund.

Click to expand...

For what Imagination Technologies did to China (ruined some plans), I hope they go under. I seem to remember that they paid quite a bit for the MIPS rights ($100 million or thereabouts). May they lose it all.

Also, given most smartphones use ARM, using any other architecture is a real problem. Especially with Android.

Click to expand...

Agree.

Nutrient said:

You'll be fine for one generation of the ARM architecture. After that, you'll be vulnerable to Trump's whims. I'm not sure whether the Nikkei article mentioned it, but the Arm China deal includes the rights to all future ARM generations. That was probably the reason for the deal.

(In case anybody's confused, the deal was only for ARM's China subsidiary, not for all of ARM.)

Click to expand...

That is exactly what I was concerned and relieved after you have said this.

I have read an article arguing that Huawei's Kirin CPU being "independent" is not real independent because Huawei does not own the right to future ARM designs, nor does Huawei have the right to design its own new generation ARM CPU based on the current licensed right even it is able to do so. Huawei is essentially tied to ARM, arms and legs. This is also a concern for any other Chinese vendors based on ARM license. I don't know the detail of Huawei's arrangement, but the concern is acute.

In any case, ARM is much safer than X86 or other architectures owned by US entities. ARM was/is a British company, owned by a Japanese company. Even without this new deal, there is no commercial and legal way except political means for US to block China to it. At least, China can compete with the US in winning an arrangement with UK and Japan, we have seen this opportunities played well in UK so far, for example, the HSR, Hinkley Nuclear plant and Huawei 5G etc.

taxiya said:

That is exactly what I was concerned and relieved after you have said this.

Click to expand...

Hmmm...When I read the Nikkei article last year, other pages mentioned that China would get to use all future generations of the ARM. But I can't find those pages any more. So we'll have to consider that information unconfirmed. There would be little point in paying $775 million, as Hou An Innovations did, for only one generation. But I want confirmation.

I have read an article arguing that Huawei's Kirin CPU being "independent" is not real independent because Huawei does not own the right to future ARM designs, nor does Huawei have the right to design its own new generation ARM CPU based on the current licensed right even it is able to do so. Huawei is essentially tied to ARM, arms and legs. This is also a concern for any other Chinese vendors based on ARM license. I don't know the detail of Huawei's arrangement, but the concern is acute.

Click to expand...

I had similar worries for Huawei after ZTE was nearly killed off. If the ARM became unavailable (as MIPS did earlier) China could fairly easily design its own CPU chip and form a dense software ecosystem. Due to China's large internal market, the new design would have been successful. But there would have been much delay. So when the news of China's takeover of Arm China came out, I was happy.

In any case, ARM is much safer than X86 or other architectures owned by US entities.

Click to expand...

Incidentally, China's

"Thanks to a licensing deal with AMD and a complex joint-venture arrangement, the Chinese chip producer Chengdu Haiguang IC Design Co. (Hygon) is now producing x86-based server processors that are largely indistinguishable from AMD's EPYC processors—so close in design that Linux kernel developers had to do little in the way of patching to support the new processor family, called "Dhyana.""

So China's safe regardless of whether the Americans attack the ARM supply (of the dominant CPUs in smartphones) or the x86 supply (of the dominant CPUs in desktops). In computers, the last major vulnerability is Windows.

manqiangrexue said:

...
There are often comments of white people saying that Chinese people are genetically superior or that they are the next evolution of mankind. Why? Because Chinese weightlifting is unparalleled in the world. Sometimes at World level competitions, Chinese weightlifters can win more gold medals than the rest of the world combined. While some countries like Kazakhstan, Bulgaria, Azerbaijan may experience spurts of gold medal rushes, they are ALWAYS, INVARIABLY ended by huge drug busts. China has always been there and always been at the top, even when Chinese athletes all test clean and their rivals all fail drug tests. Chinese weightlifters lift weights that Americans cannot even dream of. And because of this strength, Chinese culture and genetics are revered and idolized in the weightlifting community.

Click to expand...

For a moment you got me curious, because as a white person who regularly frequents the gym I never heard anyone speak of Chinese as a weightlifting role model.
I even went to double check the list of male Olympic medalists in middle heavyweight, heavyweight and super heavyweight in the last 50 years and not a single medal was awarded to China. I had to go all the way down to middleweights to find Chinese medalists. And to extrapolate superior genetics from a small sample of above average strength/performance individuals is akin to Nazi Germany propaganda.

Just for the record, the best weightlifting nation at the modern Olympics remains the Soviet Union, despite being absent from the competition in the last 30 years ...

Max Demian said:

For a moment you got me curious, because as a white person who regularly frequents the gym I never heard anyone speak of Chinese as a weightlifting role model.
I even went to double check the list of male Olympic medalists in middle heavyweight, heavyweight and super heavyweight in the last 50 years and not a single medal was awarded to China. I had to go all the way down to middleweights to find Chinese medalists. And to extrapolate superior genetics from a small sample of above average strength/performance individuals is akin to Nazi Germany propaganda.

Just for the record, the best weightlifting nation at the modern Olympics remains the Soviet Union, despite being absent from the competition in the last 30 years ...

Click to expand...

quickly counted
nine out of twenty-four in
which sounds impressive; I just
Give Credit Where Credit Is Due

Max Demian said:

For a moment you got me curious, because as a white person who regularly frequents the gym I never heard anyone speak of Chinese as a weightlifting role model.
I even went to double check the list of male Olympic medalists in middle heavyweight, heavyweight and super heavyweight in the last 50 years and not a single medal was awarded to China. I had to go all the way down to middleweights to find Chinese medalists. And to extrapolate superior genetics from a small sample of above average strength/performance individuals is akin to Nazi Germany propaganda.

Just for the record, the best weightlifting nation at the modern Olympics remains the Soviet Union, despite being absent from the competition in the last 30 years ...

Click to expand...

Well just because some Chinese lie, cheat, and steal (oh wait thats the CIA), doesn’t mean you can extrapolate it to all Chinese. That’s akin to Nazi Germany view of Jews, yet its the general sentiment against Chinese right now. I’m actually afraid some white person will kill me someday out of the blue just fyi. (i need to gtfo of the midwest)

feel I need to comment also here:

manqiangrexue said:

..., even when Chinese athletes all test clean and their rivals all fail drug tests. ...

Click to expand...

as a quick google search shows
In Brief: Doping ban on China weightlifters stays
Aug 19, 2018

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

end of my weightlifting session LOL

Jura said:

feel I need to comment also here:
as a quick google search shows
In Brief: Doping ban on China weightlifters stays
Aug 19, 2018

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

end of my weightlifting session LOL

Click to expand...

China had 3 athletes test positive in 2008 and 1 in 2010. None since. China's closest rival is Russia, and recently, Kazakhstan had risen and I'm not sure if it's combined or just one country but they had something like 130 positives together in that time. After the doping bans, Russia and Kazakhstan fell apart; only China is still as dominant as ever. Doping in weightlifting is so prevalent that in 2012, the 94kg category saw the top 5 lifters disqualified with number 6 becoming the gold medalist. Recently the Thai women's team exploded and took some gold medals from China; months later, the ALL tested positive. Also, unlike these countries, China has never has a team bust before, where all (or even most) members are caught. So 4 in from 11 years back and none in the last 8 years is really a shining example.

Max Demian said:

For a moment you got me curious, because as a white person who regularly frequents the gym I never heard anyone speak of Chinese as a weightlifting role model.
I even went to double check the list of male Olympic medalists in middle heavyweight, heavyweight and super heavyweight in the last 50 years and not a single medal was awarded to China. I had to go all the way down to middleweights to find Chinese medalists. And to extrapolate superior genetics from a small sample of above average strength/performance individuals is akin to Nazi Germany propaganda.

Just for the record, the best weightlifting nation at the modern Olympics remains the Soviet Union, despite being absent from the competition in the last 30 years ...

Click to expand...

Yeah, going to the gym and weightlifting are different things. Going to the gym is for everyone and it isn't an Olympic event. Olympic Weightlifting is for the truly extreme athletes and regular gym Joes usually have no idea how to do it because the snatch and the clean and jerk are described as the most difficult movements you can do with a barbell. Look up Ma Strength Training Camp. Look up Shenzhen Weightlifting. You will see people from all over the world pay thousands of dollars to travel to China to wear "Team China" shirts, train with Chinese Coaches, and admire Chinese culture. If you look at their instagrams and the instagrams of champions like Lu Xiaojun, Liao Hui, you will find comments about genetic superiority.

Now about the genetic superiority, I'm not going all Nazi and I'm not the one who made the claim. It's true that some races of people will specialize in certain sports but that's not the point. The point is that those comments highlight the incredible, sometimes irrational admiration towards the strong, no matter who they are.

Anyway, you're you so specific in your check? Targeting just men and only the highest weight categories? Look at the overall medal tables at Olympic weightlifting. In 2016, 2012, 2008, 2004, 2000, China topped the medal tables with 5 gold and the runner up was usually not past 2. I have to go back as far as 1996 to find a year when China got second place.

If you check Wikipedia for the World Weightlifting Championship results, year after year, China tops the tables. Most recently after a weight class switch up, in 2018, China won 9 out of 20 gold medals (it says 7 but it's 9 now after the Thai women were disqualified for doping), with 11 going to the rest of the world, but guess what? Only 14 of those 20 classes are Olympic weight classes (with the other 6 classes seen as table scraps because they do not translate to Olympic medals) and of those 14 medals, China took 8 and the rest of the world took 6. China's heaviest male gold medalist in 2018 (2019 world's in in September) is Yang Zhe, who took the gold medal in the snatch for the men's heavyweight (109kg) class. When it comes to World Records, China holds 20 out of the 39 current WRs with runner ups Iran and Georgia each holding 3. That's what's happening now, not 30 years ago.

lol at him trying to compare "going to the gym" and his anecdotes from other gym meatheads to global competition in olympic weightlifting. two completely different ecosystems and social communities with, from what i can tell, almost no overlap.

technology
U.S. Accuses Huawei Defense Lawyer of Conflict of Interest
By

May 10, 2019, 5:42 PM EDT Updated on May 10, 2019, 8:06 PM EDT

• James Cole served in Justice Deparment’s No. 2 job until 2015
• Prosecutors say attorney had access to classified probes

James M. Cole, left, leaves the Federal Courthouse on March 14.

Photographer: Johannes Eisele/AFP via Getty Images

LISTEN TO ARTICLE

1:55
SHARE THIS ARTICLE



Email
In this article

U.S. prosecutors in a high-profile case against are seeking to disqualify the company’s lead lawyer, saying he has a conflict of interest stemming from his former role as second-in-command at the Justice Department.

James M. Cole should be excluded from the Chinese smart-phone maker’s defense team because he had access to classified investigations that appear to be connected to Huawei during his four-year tenure under then-Attorney General Eric Holder, prosecutors said in a heavily-redacted memo filed Friday. He has refused to recuse himself from the case despite having an "obvious conflict of interest" that would give him an unfair advantage, according to the filing in federal court in Brooklyn, New York.

Cole is defending Huawei and a U.S. affiliate against charges that they defrauded at least four banks by concealing business dealings in Iran in violation of U.S. sanctions. Meng Wanzhou, Huawei’s chief financial officer, who is also charged in the case, remains free on bail in Vancouver while she fights extradition to the U.S.

Cole, as a at , has been representing Huawei since at least April 2017, when the U.S. served subpoenas upon the company during its investigation, according to prosecutors. He met with Brooklyn prosecutors in October 2018 to discuss the Huawei probe and met them again in January, after Wanzhou was arrested by Canadian authorities at the behest of the U.S.

“Cole’s work on these related matters creates the real risk that he will breach his duty of confidentiality to the DOJ by relying on information he obtained while representing the department in the course of his representation of the defendants," according to filing by the the U.S.

The attorney stood by his decision not to recuse himself in a March 6 letter to prosecutors. "We have carefully considered the material you showed us and were unable to determine that I need to be disqualified," he wrote, according to prosecutors.

Kellie Mullins, a spokeswoman for Sidley Austin, didn’t have an immediate comment.

(Updates with government’s objections beginning in the second paragraph.)