Infantry Combat Equipment (non-firearm): Vests, Body Armor, NVGs, etc.

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
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These comments made my day. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but the reality of the PLA is that the soldiers are only slightly better than the Russians when it comes to corruption. The only thing that stops gear from falling off trucks en masse is the language barrier and mutual xenophobia.

Just say you don't know anything about the Chinese. At least then you would be more believable than that laughable statement you made.

Let’s not go off topic y’all. I remember the corruption part was actually discussed before in a different thread a long time ago. TLDR: Xi’s military reforms stopped and rooted it out. If you want to know more about it, I’m sure someone here who is much more knowledgeable than me can correct that old view. There are a lot of things on this forum that contradict and disprove the mainstream perspective of the Chinese military.
 
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sheen

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Let’s not go off topic y’all. I remember the corruption part was actually discussed before in a different thread a long time ago. TLDR: Xi’s military reforms stopped and rooted it out. If you want to know more about it, I’m sure someone here who is much more knowledgeable than me can correct that old view. There are a lot of things on this forum that contradict and disprove the mainstream perspective of the Chinese military.
I'll just add to this as a final note. China sends QBZ-95s chambered in 5.8mm ammo on UN peacekeeping missions, so it's not unusual for stuff to legitimately get lost during a mission or negligence. That should go with body armor inventory as well. The fact that we're not seeing a lot of distributions of these types of equipment on the market is something that we should give the PLA credit for, especially given the organization's size. That said, yeah, garbage people still exists, and you can't stop them all no matter the country you serve in. :confused:
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
You look at the PLA as a whole and somehow you get the idea it's only slightly above Russia? The PLA and the Chinese government in general sure as heck wouldn't be where it is today if that were the case. Americans in general love exaggerating all things negatively when it comes to the PLA. That's corruption statement is asinine. I won't deny he is knowledgeable about the equipment though.
Last comment on this issue: You have to remember the dude is American imbued with the God given rights of incorruptible character and immaculate integrity. Lol
 

Oxhide

New Member
Registered Member
While it's a pleasure to have someone of your background and military expertise to post on this forum and I look forward to learning from your insights, experience, American perspective, I have to quibble on the corruption charges you claim of the PLA rank and file and the PLA military in general. While what you said is maybe true, I hope you can't be flipping serious that corruption doesn't occur in your own service (US Army) and accross US military services because they exist and much have been publicized and I can only imagine as a non-American the extent of your militaries corruption that's hidden from public views.

Corruption isn't a Chinese or Russian thing, it's a human nature thing just what your Federalist paper 51 written by James Madison said: "If Men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and the next place, oblige it to control itself.”

Again, I hope to read more from you and looking forward to your posts.
I never said that the American military was immune from similar behavior. I would know! There is this misconception that the Chinese are good at rooting out their own soldiers that sell gear. Chinese customs and security of that nature with goods are still very exploitable. It is the attitudes of the PLA soldiers themselves that are self policing in that there is a lot of mistrust on an individual level against the would be largest buyers of stolen military stuff (Americans) and vice versa. I hope that makes sense.

Just say you don't know anything about the Chinese. At least then you would be more believable than that laughable statement you made.
I can explain more on this topic and actually give examples of some of the stuff I've personally experienced with PLA/PAP soldiers/police and corruption, but as you say I don't know anything about the Chinese, so I'm not going to. You said it, so you must already know all about me and it must be true!

I have quite a few more items that are far more sensitive (and expensive) from the PLA than body armor. Corruption is a reality and should be discussed, especially on a forum dedicated to the military.

But this entire thread is on individual combat equipment. So this is kinda off topic. I just found those posts interesting and wanted to point out that there are many such "traitors" so to speak. The problem is immortal and worldwide. It is not limited to China.
 

sheen

New Member
Registered Member
I never said that the American military was immune from similar behavior. I would know! There is this misconception that the Chinese are good at rooting out their own soldiers that sell gear. Chinese customs and security of that nature with goods are still very exploitable. It is the attitudes of the PLA soldiers themselves that are self policing in that there is a lot of mistrust on an individual level against the would be largest buyers of stolen military stuff (Americans) and vice versa. I hope that makes sense.


I can explain more on this topic and actually give examples of some of the stuff I've personally experienced with PLA/PAP soldiers/police and corruption, but as you say I don't know anything about the Chinese, so I'm not going to. You said it, so you must already know all about me and it must be true!

I have quite a few more items that are far more sensitive (and expensive) from the PLA than body armor. Corruption is a reality and should be discussed, especially on a forum dedicated to the military.

But this entire thread is on individual combat equipment. So this is kinda off topic. I just found those posts interesting and wanted to point out that there are many such "traitors" so to speak. The problem is immortal and worldwide. It is not limited to China.
But yeah, but back on topic, in terms of performance of said gear, information is hard to come by for PLA issued stuff and for the most part are speculated based on their export stuff that are derived from said PLA stuff. Partly due to language barrier, but also likely them trying to be low-key on an somewhat of a open secrets. I recall them blurring out pictures showing the bolt of the QBZ-191, but then a day later they show a 3D cad rendering of the entire gun on state media :cool:. Yeah they're pretty inconsistent to say the least.
 

Aniah

Senior Member
Registered Member
I have quite a few more items that are far more sensitive (and expensive) from the PLA than body armor. Corruption is a reality and should be discussed, especially on a forum dedicated to the military.

But this entire thread is on individual combat equipment. So this is kinda off topic. I just found those posts interesting and wanted to point out that there are many such "traitors" so to speak. The problem is immortal and worldwide. It is not limited to China.
That's even more worrying and only makes my statement more important. These are absolutely unacceptable. All this has shown is there needs to be stricter checks within the PLA. Whenever a foreigner shows up with PLA gear that shouldn't be there, a purging is needed.

The PLA follows its rules regarding such actions without question. Just look at the recent head engineer on one of China's top projects. The man was caught selling key information to foreign countries and was executed relatively soon after. As internal security increases, these will happen less and less. If you said this 10 years ago, I would agree with you on the corruption statement but the anti-corruption push from the government has done wonders to such traitors. I'll end my off-topic rant here.
 

Aniah

Senior Member
Registered Member
But yeah, but back on topic, in terms of performance of said gear, information is hard to come by for PLA issued stuff and for the most part are speculated based on their export stuff that are derived from said PLA stuff. Partly due to language barrier, but also likely them trying to be low-key on an somewhat of a open secrets. I recall them blurring out pictures showing the bolt of the QBZ-191, but then a day later they show a 3D cad rendering of the entire gun on state media :cool:. Yeah they're pretty inconsistent to say the least.
Most of those stuff we know will be shown to the public sooner or later, it's just that the people haven't been given full approval to release all the minor details but even then, they are "open secrets" like you've said. It's probably the same regarding the armor and ammo.
 

Botnet

Junior Member
Registered Member
These comments made my day. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but the reality of the PLA is that the soldiers are only slightly better than the Russians when it comes to corruption. The only thing that stops gear from falling off trucks en masse is the language barrier and mutual xenophobia.
Interesting. Where did you get this little tidbit of information from, China Uncensored? Sure, the PLA has a corruption issue, but this is just regurgitated Western talking points.
 

Oxhide

New Member
Registered Member
But yeah, but back on topic, in terms of performance of said gear, information is hard to come by for PLA issued stuff and for the most part are speculated based on their export stuff that are derived from said PLA stuff. Partly due to language barrier, but also likely them trying to be low-key on an somewhat of a open secrets. I recall them blurring out pictures showing the bolt of the QBZ-191, but then a day later they show a 3D cad rendering of the entire gun on state media :cool:. Yeah they're pretty inconsistent to say the least.
Funny you should mention the 191, I have a line on them and God (and Army) willing I should be testing the 03 rifle and the 191 next year. I really don't want to make a PLA loadout video or any loadout video without having the proper rifle. I'm desperately trying to avoid using a 97 for a kit video. But 95s and the others are obviously not local and the Army is very sensitive about my travel. It isn't worth losing security clearance over. I will post here again once those spicy rifles are on film.
 

Aniah

Senior Member
Registered Member
Funny you should mention the 191, I have a line on them and God (and Army) willing I should be testing the 03 rifle and the 191 next year. I really don't want to make a PLA loadout video or any loadout video without having the proper rifle. I'm desperately trying to avoid using a 97 for a kit video. But 95s and the others are obviously not local and the Army is very sensitive about my travel. It isn't worth losing security clearance over. I will post here again once those spicy rifles are on film.
Since you gonna get your hand on a 191, would you happen to know about the rumors of an export version of 5.56 / 5/45 QBZ 191?
 
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