India to keenly watch PAF's `coming of age'


SABRE

Junior Member
India to keenly watch PAF's `coming of age'​
Mon, 29 Aug 2005, 13:37



NEW DELHI: A large and complex war game by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) next month is being seen by the IAF as “coming of age†of the PAF's tactical air doctrine.

The IAF will be watching closely the exercise - involving crucial doctrinal tests endorsed by General Pervez Musharraf himself - that will elevate the PAF to a primary assault force, on par with the country's Army.

High Mark 2005, which kicks off on September 7 (Air Force Day in Pakistan), will involve 350 military aircraft and 20 air bases, including those on the frontier with India. The exercise will see the PAF put newly-honed beyond visual range (BVR), interdiction, air escort, ground attack and interception concepts through torture tests.


Sources at the Air HQ here said, “It is for the first time that they will have such a large mock deployment and it will be interesting to see how it goes. The establishment there has been working furiously on the air force concepts for the last three to four years. It must be said, however, that the IAF is conceptually more advanced at this stage[/U].â€

The aircraft to be used in the war game include the American-made F-16B and AH-1 Cobra chopper, Chinese F-7 and Q-5, French Mirage-III and IV, C-130 Hercules transporters and other support platforms, including UAVs, Pak Navy's P-3B Orions and Atlantiques. The Sino-Pak JF-17 multirole fighter might also be fielded for combat postures in the exercise, according to reports.


Source: DefenceTalk News
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This is going to be biggest war got of its sort. ACs flying all over Pakistan. From one corner to another. It is also going to celebrate farewell to old PAF war doctorine & some old AirCrafts.

The show up of JF-17 would be watch by Pakistan, Chinese & also the Indians.

It will also be interesting to see PAF's Mirage-3 & 5 equiped & in action with their new MICA BVR Missiles from France.
 
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Diving Falcon

Junior Member
If you're referring to ROSE-II and ROSE-III, then they cannot use the MICA BVR missiles, the only Mirage I think which could use them is the Mirage ROSE-I, which is based off Mirage-III. However I should note, there have been reports of PAF acquiring a BVR system back in 2003-2004, from South Africa apparently.

I agree with you on the part about this excersize being revolutionary in the PAF's history, given that after this excersize, the new plan and procurement era will start. Over the next few years, if all goes well, the PAF will be inducting new F-16s, JF-17s, AWACS, new SAMs, changing their old ADS to a new modern one, etc.
 

FriedRiceNSpice

Senior Member
Pakistan has the JF-17, yet China does not fly the FC-1 yet. Why is that? And are the JF-17s produced in Pakistan or China? Are there any differences between the JF-17 and FC-1, other than perhaps French avionics on the JF-17 and Russian ones on the FC-1?
 

FriedRiceNSpice

Senior Member
MIGleader said:
i think the jf-17 is the export designation, while fc-1 was the name of the original project.
I thought the FC-1 was the export designation, JF-17 was the Pakistani designation, and J-9 the PLAAF designation (if it enters PLAAF service).
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
it won't enter plaaf service...althogh it would be a great way to replace the older migs. i think you may be right.
 

Diving Falcon

Junior Member
JF-17 seems to be the Pakistani designation, while FC-1 is export, but overall its the same fighter, except for the avionics and weapons perhaps, assuming PAF does get a Western avionics suite in the JF-17's 2nd or 3rd upgrade.
 

SABRE

Junior Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Diving Falcon said:
If you're referring to ROSE-II and ROSE-III, then they cannot use the MICA BVR missiles, the only Mirage I think which could use them is the Mirage ROSE-I, which is based off Mirage-III. However I should note, there have been reports of PAF acquiring a BVR system back in 2003-2004, from South Africa apparently.

I agree with you on the part about this excersize being revolutionary in the PAF's history, given that after this excersize, the new plan and procurement era will start. Over the next few years, if all goes well, the PAF will be inducting new F-16s, JF-17s, AWACS, new SAMs, changing their old ADS to a new modern one, etc.
I guess u have missed out. In Paris Air Show one of the PAF Mirage-5 was displayed. It is said it was one othe most unique aircrafts one display. According to reports it had Letest French Radar & MICA on board. This was of ROSE-III upgrade. So the Mirage-3/5 ROSE-III can fire MICA missiles. Thats why the news said that PAF will test fire its new BVR missiles.

What South Africa gave technology transfer of were BVR Bombs not BVRAAMs.

FriedRiceNSpice said:
Pakistan has the JF-17, yet China does not fly the FC-1 yet. Why is that? And are the JF-17s produced in Pakistan or China? Are there any differences between the JF-17 and FC-1, other than perhaps French avionics on the JF-17 and Russian ones on the FC-1?
PAF doesnt have JF-17 yet niether does PLAAF. Atleast not in status of fighter jets. These are prototypes which will fly in the show. They signify the modernization.

Yes PAF JF-17 would be different from Chinese FC-1. PAF will equip JF-17 with different Radar & avionics (mostly western, most from France).

MIGleader said:
i think the jf-17 is the export designation, while fc-1 was the name of the original project.
FC-1 is Chinese version JF-17 is Pakistani version. The export version has also been named JF-17 but PAF JF-17 is going to be different in avionics & weapon system. e.g: It may carry French MICA missiles along with SD-10.

FriedRiceNSpice said:
I thought the FC-1 was the export designation, JF-17 was the Pakistani designation, and J-9 the PLAAF designation (if it enters PLAAF service).
J-9 was previous designation which both PAC & CAC decided to remove. PAF dint want to call it F-9. It sounded like inferior AC to F-16s. The main purpose was to make it superior to F-16A/B Block 15, 30 some versions of block 40.

MIGLeader said:
it won't enter plaaf service...althogh it would be a great way to replace the older migs. i think you may be right.
PLAAF is going to buy 200 FC-1s to replace some of its J-7/F-7 & Q-5/A-5 ACs.

Diving Falcon said:
JF-17 seems to be the Pakistani designation, while FC-1 is export, but overall its the same fighter, except for the avionics and weapons perhaps, assuming PAF does get a Western avionics suite in the JF-17's 2nd or 3rd upgrade.
I guess if u read above you'll find ur answer.

ger_mark said:
does that plane have engines jet ?
Yes...RD-93. China has about 100 of them. By the time PAC & CAC produce 50-50 FC-1/JF-17s respectively, the Chinese & Pakistanis would probably come up with RD-93's reverse engineered version for JF-17/FC-1.

Russia is not selling any more RD-93 because of its use on Pakistani JF-17. But China as always has a way out :D

Indians are thinking that Russians are doing this because of alliance between them while in reality Russia sees FC-1 & JF-17 as loss to its exports of MiG-29 & upgrading spare components market for MiG-21s & other old MiG versions. JF-17 is suppose to replace them remeber that.
 

Diving Falcon

Junior Member
I guess u have missed out. In Paris Air Show one of the PAF Mirage-5 was displayed. It is said it was one othe most unique aircrafts one display. According to reports it had Letest French Radar & MICA on board. This was of ROSE-III upgrade. So the Mirage-3/5 ROSE-III can fire MICA missiles. Thats why the news said that PAF will test fire its new BVR missiles.

What South Africa gave technology transfer of were BVR Bombs not BVRAAMs.
That would hardly make sence given that the Pakistan Air Force is still one of those air forces with limited resources, and mere common sence dictates that an air force with limited resources would want to make full use of an expensive weapon. The Mirage ROSE-III does not have a radar, thus firing a MICA on it would be a waste given that a plane with a good radar would make better use of it. Sure, I'm not saying that PAF doesn't have MICA, but its extremely unlikely that the MICA is being used on ROSE-III, which is primarily a strike plane, without a radar (or a suffiecient enough one).

As for the reports about it being fitted with the latest radar, I suggest you read about the ROSE III from AFM's past articles, and as you'll see, there is no mention of radar. Contact Munir if possible, as he or someone he knew went to the air show. ROSE III and ROSE II are the same thing, they're both from the Mirage V, only the ROSE-I has a radar which could use a BVRAAM.
 
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