India incursion and Chinese standoff at Dolam, Bhutan

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ougoah

Brigadier
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China already has terrible PR with the West; they just don't like a country from the East rising to possibly become world number 1. The fact is, anyone who didn't like China before this still won't and anyone who did still will. And to be honest, no one in the West does business with China because they love China (politically) or like feeding the Chinese economy; they do business with China for their own profits and out of necessity to fight their competition. They do business with China because China offers the best service/product for the price in the world. The real question is, whether these people would be willing to sacrifice their own interests and profits in a show of solidarity with India. Do people love India? LOL Not from what I can tell.

From what I see, China and India are opposites in Western minds. Westerners are supposed to hate China because of politics but they often find themselves enthralled by its beauty and culture and end up making confused, stupid statements like, "It's so wonderful here but the government is oppressive and terrible. I love the Chinese people but hate the government." But for India, westerners are taught that they should like India because it's the biggest democracy in the world but to be honest, they just can't find anything intrinsically attractive about India.

But there are plenty of people in between those who are convinced either way. Those swing votes matter. It's always important to cultivate your image as unfortunate a reality as that is. The people who hate China and Chinese may change.
 
Wednesday at 3:43 AM
Not sure if this is fake news or not But there is altercation between Indian and Chinese troop . Not surprising given the high tension now between the opposing troop

India, China soldiers involved in border altercation: Indian sources
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NEW DELHI/SRINAGAR, India (Reuters) - Indian and Chinese soldiers were involved in an altercation in the western Himalayas on Tuesday, Indian sources said, further raising tensions between the two countries which are already locked in a two-month standoff in another part of the disputed border.

A source in New Delhi, who had been briefed on the military situation on the border, said soldiers foiled a bid by a group of Chinese troops to enter Indian territory in Ladakh, near the Pangong lake.

Some of the Chinese soldiers carried iron rods and stones, and in the melee there were minor injuries on both sides, the source said.

China's defense and foreign ministries did not immediately respond to request for comment.

The two sides have frequently accused each other of intrusions into each other's territories, but clashes are rare.

The Indian military declined to comment on the incident.

"There was an altercation near the Pangong lake," said a police officer in Srinagar, the capital of India's Jammu and Kashmir state, under which the area falls. An army source in Srinagar also spoke of an altercation following what he called a Chinese army "incursion in Pangong lake area".

The two armies are already engaged in a standoff in the Doklam plateau further east, in another part of their 3,500 km (2,175 mile) unmarked mountain border.

China has repeatedly asked India to unilaterally withdraw from the Doklam area, or else face the prospect of an escalation. Chinese state media have warned India of a fate worse than its crushing defeat in a brief border war in 1962.

The trouble started in June when India sent troops to stop China building a road in the Doklam area, which is remote, uninhabited territory claimed by both China and India's ally Bhutan.
now I read
Chinese troops injured by Indian border troops' fierce action: foreign ministry
Xinhua| 2017-08-21 21:28:59
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Some Chinese troops suffered injuries from Indian troops' fierce action in the western part of the border area, the Chinese Foreign Ministry confirmed Monday.

This came after a video showing border troops from the two countries pushing and throwing stones at one another near Pangong Lake.

Last Tuesday, Indian border troops obstructed Chinese border troops, who were carrying out normal patrols on the Chinese side of the actual line of control in the Pangong lake area, Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said at a daily briefing.

Hua noted some Chinese were injured after the Indian side "took fierce actions, collided with the Chinese and physically fought with them."

The Indian troops' actions went against the two countries' consensus to keep peace on the border and endangered the situation in the western part of the China-India border, she said.

Hua stressed China is extremely dissatisfied and had lodged solemn representations.

China has urged India to conform to relevant agreements and restrict its border troops' activities to maintain peace and stability in the border area.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
But there are plenty of people in between those who are convinced either way. Those swing votes matter. It's always important to cultivate your image as unfortunate a reality as that is. The people who hate China and Chinese may change.
The only people who are in between are those who don't concern themselves with politics; they won't care what happens with China vs. India. Those who care about politics have a strong opinion on China that will not change. Those who hate China hate China because it is strong, and it defies Western "wisdom" in its growth. They dislike being challenged by a rival superpower, being proven wrong and shown that their way is not the only way or even the best way. The only way to make these people like China is to disarm and become weak and then come to them seeking guidance.

What is your infatuation with being "liked"? It is not befitting for a citizen of an upcoming superpower (if you are Chinese). You need to understand that your rivals/enemies will not like you unless you surrender; rivals/enemies are for beating, not for liking each other. I'd dread to be liked by these people; I'd rather they accumulate so much hate, envy, and frustration that their skulls crack open LOL
 
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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
When is the other shoe going to drop?
PLA holds drills amid Doklam tensions

Source:Global Times Published: 2017/8/20 22:18:39


Western Theater: Group 77 Army Army West Plateau artillery group day and night live fire shooting
The People's Liberation Army's (PLA) Western Theater Command has conducted military exercises amid tensions in Doklam from a standoff with trespassing Indian troops.

The Western Theater Command covers Tibet,
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, Ningxia, Qinghai, Sichuan and Chongqing.

China Central Television reported on Friday that more than 10 PLA units, including aviation units and armored forces, participated in the drills.

The five-minute-long video showed tanks firing at targets on hills, followed by helicopters firing missiles at ground targets.

The report did not mention the location of the exercises, only saying the drills "lay the ground for plateau warfare."

The Lianhe Zaobao newspaper on Friday quoted analysts as saying such Chinese PLA military exercises are meant to "strike awe in India," as the two sides have been engaged in a standoff in Doklam for more than two months, and the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau, which is closest to India, is where the Western Theater Command is most prominent.

In July, one of PLA's two plateau mountain brigades conducted live-fire drills in Tibet. The drills included the quick arrival of troops and different military units working together on joint attacks.

The brigade has long been stationed around the middle and lower reaches of the Yarlung Zangbo River and is responsible for frontline combat missions.
 
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Figaro

Senior Member
Registered Member
PLA howitzers exercise WTC
ImANRPu.gif
 

sanblvd

Junior Member
Registered Member
I just watched Trump's major speech on Afghanistan, the part that strike me the most is when he mention that US cannot send blank check to Pakistan anymore, and Pakistan needs to do more.

And building strategic partnership with India, and India's help on Afghanistan. This will make India very happy, but I don't know who is playing who, knowing India's past I think India is playing US, in the past India never trusted Americans but they will pay lip service to take as much advantage as possible while do as little as possible... when you think about it, that is kinda of what Pakistan have done.

I don't know what this strategic partnership is going to be, but I know India won't get what it want, here is my analysis
1. America is broke right now, so they cannot give India what India is expecting
2. Knowing the traits of Indians, they will take as much advantage as possible, while do as little as possible, this is not something American culture values.
3. Fully shift to US camp is not going to make Russia happy, half of Indian current inventory are Russians, so India is either not going to fully commit or piss off Russia, both have bad outcome.
4. This just give more excuse for China to build up relationships with all of India's neighbor to contain India, as well as carry more overt anti-India policies and India cannot complain, because they know they brought it on themselves.
5. Just what the hell can India do in Afghanistan anyway? Its located on the other side of Pakistan, there is literally nothing India can do, only thing I can think of is India picking more fight with Pakistan... but that still won't help the Americans.

I think both side is going to be very disappointed with this new relationships, I like China's chances.
 

kurutoga

Junior Member
Registered Member
I just watched Trump's major speech on Afghanistan, the part that strike me the most is when he mention that US cannot send blank check to Pakistan anymore, and Pakistan needs to do more.

What I heard:
  • India needs to somehow help Afghanistan develop, otherwise India's trade surplus is at stake
  • Will send mines and rocks from Afghanistan to India by air
  • Neutral to Taliban, fight ISIS and Al Qaeda (bad news for some people in Syria, Al Qaeda is officially not Resistance any more)
  • Push Pakistan closer to Iran (Pak, Iran, Qatar) away from Saudi
 

kurutoga

Junior Member
Registered Member
LOL

"We appreciate India's important contributions to stability in Afghanistan, but India makes billions of dollars in trade with the United States, and we want them to help us more with Afghanistan, especially in the area of economic assistance and development."

Is he directly asking India to pay more funding or somehow invest in Afghanistan? And will start a trade war with India if nothing happens?
 

sanblvd

Junior Member
Registered Member
LOL

"We appreciate India's important contributions to stability in Afghanistan, but India makes billions of dollars in trade with the United States, and we want them to help us more with Afghanistan, especially in the area of economic assistance and development."

Is he directly asking India to pay more funding or somehow invest in Afghanistan? And will start a trade war with India if nothing happens?

Damn, Trump is so damn good, when he mentions you name, you don't know whatever he is praising you or threatening you.... now that is the Art of the Deal
 
Yesterday at 8:35 PM
Wednesday at 3:43 AM
now I read
Chinese troops injured by Indian border troops' fierce action: foreign ministry
Xinhua| 2017-08-21 21:28:59
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now Reuters:
'Extremely dissatisfied' China blames India for border scuffle
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China laid the blame at India's door on Monday for an altercation along their border in the western Himalayas involving soldiers from both of the Asian giants.

Both countries' troops have been embroiled in an eight-week-long standoff on the Doklam plateau in another part of the remote Himalayan region near their disputed frontier.

Last week, a source in New Delhi, who had been briefed on the military situation on the border, said soldiers foiled a bid by a group of Chinese troops to enter Indian territory in Ladakh, near Pangong lake.

Some of the Chinese soldiers carried iron rods and stones, and troops on both sides suffered minor injuries in the melee, the source said.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said that last Tuesday, Chinese border forces were carrying out "normal" patrols on the Chinese side of the actual line of control in the Pangong lake are.

"During this time they were obstructed by Indian border forces and the Indian side took fierce actions, colliding with the Chinese personnel and having contact with their bodies, injuring the Chinese border personnel," Hua told a daily news briefing.

What India did went against the two countries' consensus to keep the peace on the border and it endangered the situation there, she added.

"China is extremely dissatisfied with this" and had lodged solemn representations, Hua said.

India's Foreign Ministry has confirmed the incident in Ladakh took place but has not given any details.

Indian media have shown footage taken on a mobile phone purportedly of the scuffle, originally posted by a retired army officer, with stone throwing and shoving by soldiers of both countries.

The heighten tension on both ends of the border come ahead of a summit of the BRICS group of nations in the Chinese city of Xiamen in early September, with leaders from Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa due to attend.

China has repeatedly asked India to unilaterally withdraw from the Doklam area, or face the prospect of an escalation. Chinese state media have warned India of a fate worse than its crushing defeat in a brief border war in 1962.
 
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