Hong-Kong Protests

Gatekeeper · Sep 16, 2019

Gatekeeper said:
Or he could be working in government or other companies that could easily get hin the sack if recognised.

Lol! I knew it! He was working for the government in customs. Isn't it strange that people can be quite happy taking paycheques from the very government they dispices and happy to ruin the economy that provides for their livelyhood.

Of course they do this behind the MASK! But once expose, he deserve all he got! Let's hope is dismissed!

solarz · Sep 16, 2019

Gatekeeper said:
Lol! I knew it! He was working for the government in customs. Isn't it strange that people can be quite happy taking paycheques from the very government they dispices and happy to ruin the economy that provides for their livelyhood.

Of course they do this behind the MASK! But once expose, he deserve all he got! Let's hope is dismissed! View attachment 53864 View attachment 53865

WTF? This guy was a customs officer???

Absolutely disgusting!

plawolf · Sep 16, 2019

I think all the MSM bias is actually a good thing for HK in the long run.

Other than the extremists who are beyond help, the silent majority in HK must be starting to realise how biased and manipulative western and even HK MSM are about the protests as they witness first hand the disparity between reality and what gets reported.

This is almost like their Lhasa moment, when people who previously believed western MSM propaganda without question suddenly see through their BS mind games.

A purge of the ringleaders and organisers as well as the participants of these riots needs to be undertaken with the same zeal and thoroughness Germany purged itself of the Nazis in order for HK to return to being a healthy and prosperous society, or else it risk following the footsteps of Japan and have those perverse individuals continue to spread their poisonous ideology to plague countless future generations.

manqiangrexue · Sep 16, 2019

plawolf said:
I think all the MSM bias is actually a good thing for HK in the long run.

Other than the extremists who are beyond help, the silent majority in HK must be starting to realise how biased and manipulative western and even HK MSM are about the protests as they witness first hand the disparity between reality and what gets reported.

This is almost like their Lhasa moment, when people who previously believed western MSM propaganda without question suddenly see through their BS mind games.

A purge of the ringleaders and organisers as well as the participants of these riots needs to be undertaken with the same zeal and thoroughness Germany purged itself of the Nazis in order for HK to return to being a healthy and prosperous society, or else it risk following the footsteps of Japan and have those perverse individuals continue to spread their poisonous ideology to plague countless future generations.

To be honest, and don't ask me why or if I'm stupid, but this is the first time in my life that I have seen truly clearly how manipulated and biased Western media is. Growing up, I used to think that although I love my country, Chinese news is kinda propaganda while Western news is more trustworthy because the governments cannot influence independent journalists so they will be free to report on what they see rather than what they are mandated to say. I still supported China over any other entity or all other entities combined, but deep down, I thought the Chinese media lied because lots of people are not patriots at heart and needed to be lied to to stay loyal. I wasn't one of those people and I didn't care; I would always support China.

But now I see that it was wrong to ever believe in greater media freedom or objectivity in the West. This incident made me revisit my views on Taiwan. Reading Western media as I grew up, I always though that everyone in Taiwan is a traitor and I hated them all. (I even hated Taiwanese food despite never trying it and knowing that it had to taste good. LOL) Traitors don't deserve anything other than to die painfully. And I carried this view literally until last month. Last month, my Muay Thai club had a mixer with the Shotokan club; the latter was taught by a Japanese instructor whose 2 best students were from Taiwan, one with military experience. When I saw them, I immediately tensed up and felt extreme hostility. I wanted to fight them and hold nothing back; whatever happened would be a "training accident." As they approached me, I spoke English to them, as I always do with Chinese people whom I don't feel comfortable around. To my shock, I didn't get 3 sentences in before they said to me, "Why speak English? We are all Chinese people so let's speak Chinese!" I almost cried at how ashamed I felt, and shook both their hands like they were long-lost brothers. That night, I thought some more. I have another very close Taiwanese friend who, every time Trump went on about tariffs, he would say, "We Chinese people need to band together and show that bully that he can only lose against us!" When I was much younger, I had previously visited a Taiwanese church a few times and I was itching to make them angry with my personal intro of how I loved China and Chinese unity! To my surprise, they clapped and when I sat with them to eat, they congratulated me on how well my parents had taught me to remember my Chinese roots! And lastly, the most important mentor I ever had in my life is from Taiwan; he met me when I was 19 and thought that FISH (fluorescent in situ hybridization) was just a lab pet and he supported me in my whole career from undergrad to PhD, to postdoctoral fellow to assistant professor, all to way to today. He rarely spoke politics but one thing he said that I'd never forget is, "Americans don't understand China but we Chinese understand well the United States. That's why the future will be Chinese." Of all the Taiwanese people I have met, only 1, perhaps 2, had been separatist; needless to say, I did not become their friend. After careful recount and reorganization of my life experiences, I have realized that statistically in my life, most Taiwanese considered themselves Chinese and were very good people to get along with, but because of the poisonous US media, I was so deeply tricked into thinking that the Taiwanese hated us Mainlanders that every time I met a Taiwanese person who was a patriot, I wrote him off as a special case! Now it's clear that from my experience, those who don't consider themselves Chinese are the actual special cases!

The incredibly biased reporting of these riots in the Western media opened up floodgates of realization for me.

solarz · Sep 16, 2019

manqiangrexue said:
To be honest, and don't ask me why or if I'm stupid, but this is the first time in my life that I have seen truly clearly how manipulated and biased Western media is. Growing up, I used to think that although I love my country, Chinese news is kinda propaganda while Western news is more trustworthy because the governments cannot influence independent journalists so they will be free to report on what they see rather than what they are mandated to say. I still supported China over any other entity or all other entities combined, but deep down, I thought the Chinese media lied because lots of people are not patriots at heart and needed to be lied to to stay loyal. I wasn't one of those people and I didn't care; I would always support China.

But now I see that it was wrong to ever believe in greater media freedom or objectivity in the West. This incident made me revisit my views on Taiwan. Reading Western media as I grew up, I always though that everyone in Taiwan is a traitor and I hated them all. (I even hated Taiwanese food despite never trying it and knowing that it had to taste good. LOL) Traitors don't deserve anything other than to die painfully. And I carried this view literally until last month. Last month, my Muay Thai club had a mixer with the Shotokan club; the latter was taught by a Japanese instructor whose 2 best students were from Taiwan, one with military experience. When I saw them, I immediately tensed up and felt extreme hostility. I wanted to fight them and hold nothing back; whatever happened would be a "training accident." As they approached me, I spoke English to them, as I always do with Chinese people whom I don't feel comfortable around. To my shock, I didn't get 3 sentences in before they said to me, "Why speak English? We are all Chinese people so let's speak Chinese!" I almost cried at how ashamed I felt, and shook both their hands like they were long-lost brothers. That night, I thought some more. I have another very close Taiwanese friend who, every time Trump went on about tariffs, he would say, "We Chinese people need to band together and show that bully that he can only lose against us!" When I was much younger, I had previously visited a Taiwanese church a few times and I was itching to make them angry with my personal intro of how I loved China and Chinese unity! To my surprise, they clapped and when I sat with them to eat, they congratulated me on how well my parents had taught me to remember my Chinese roots! And lastly, the most important mentor I ever had in my life is from Taiwan; he met me when I was 19 and thought that FISH (fluorescent in situ hybridization) was just a lab pet and he supported me in my whole career from undergrad to PhD, to postdoctoral fellow to assistant professor, all to way to today. He rarely spoke politics but one thing he said that I'd never forget is, "Americans don't understand China but we Chinese understand well the United States. That's why the future will be Chinese." Of all the Taiwanese people I have met, only 1, perhaps 2, had been separatist; needless to say, I did not become their friend. After careful recount and reorganization of my life experiences, I have realized that statistically in my life, most Taiwanese considered themselves Chinese and were very good people to get along with, but because of the poisonous US media, I was so deeply tricked into thinking that the Taiwanese hated us Mainlanders that every time I met a Taiwanese person who was a patriot, I wrote him off as a special case! Now it's clear that from my experience, those who don't consider themselves Chinese are the actual special cases!

The incredibly biased reporting of these riots in the Western media opened up floodgates of realization for me.

Truly, you're not the only one. If you go through my post history on SDF, you can get a feeling on the evolution of my thoughts.

My first watershed moment was in 2008. The Lhasa riots prompted the Toronto Chinese community to hold a huge rally downtown. I participated in the rally, the square we were in was filled with Chinese flags. There were easily thousands of us, of all ages and from all walks of life. I saw major news outlets interviewing many people.

When I got home, I eagerly turned on the TV to see news coverage of the rally. The Chinese community really made their voices heard this time, I thought.

I still remember that CTV report clearly. They showed a clip of a young Chinese guy saying he was told not to talk to the media, and that he didn't know why. Then they jumped to an Asian looking woman who claimed all the demonstrators where students and that they were forced to show up by the Chinese consulate. She further claimed that the consulate held the students' passports and controlled their visas.

I also remember searching Google for news about the rally. Every article put the rally number in the "hundreds". You can see an example of this coverage here:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

This experience was the most eye-opening experience for me. Up until then, I believed the Western propaganda about "free media". Now, I did not immediately change my mind after this experience, I remember arguing on an email thread with fellow Chinese about how they're misunderstanding Western media. I thought I knew more than them since I grew up in Canada.

I did not change my mind immediately, but I kept thinking about this experience over the years, reconciling what I went through with what I read on the MSM, and slowly I understood the pervasiveness of Western propaganda.

This is an ongoing process, as I am continuously learning new ways the media is manipulating my perception. The current HK riots is another learning experience for me. When I was searching for news of the unrest, I automatically dismissed reports from PRC sources reporting on pro-China rallies in HK. I thought that the majority of HKers were anti-China! It is only thanks to @Gatekeeper that I was able to gain an accurate understanding of the situation!

PanAsian · Sep 16, 2019

Dolcevita said:
While everything you say is true. I think you miss the point as the protest is not primarily about those daily grievances except maybe for the last one dealing with property destruction, etc. I have yet to see protest placard stating they want more affordable housing or health care or baby formulas.

I don't know whether you are aware or not that one of the early mass protests that devolved into violence against regular people and vandalism against private property specifically targeted "parallel traders" who are regular mainlanders who visit Hong Kong multiple times a day to purchase necessities like baby formula to resell on the mainland, Hong Kong stores catering to this business were also targeted, this led to the "white shirts" who are people affiliated with these businesses coming out the following weekend to fight against the "black shirt" rioters.

I am not missing any points, I am just giving each point their due, if the point is valid then it deserves to be addressed, if the point is falsified for ulterior motives then the false point is a red herring that does not deserve to be addressed as a point.

I agree that there are deficiencies with the HK authorities specially when they are unable to legislate and pass a simple extradition treaty with a perfectly good reason to uphold justice for Poon Hiu-Wing. I still think it was a bad idea to suspend and withdraw the bill but it is over. I'm afraid their ability to govern in general and to reform education, judiciary and social programs have been greatly compromised through this act.

It was a terrible decision for the bill to be withdrawn at the time that it was, however another bill that is effectively the same can be introduced at any time. The good thing about the democratic system in place in Hong Kong is that soon enough another election will bring in a different administration and legislature both of which deserve the benefit of the doubt (as much as they are composed of different people than before) that they might succeed where previous administrations and legislatures failed.

Anyway, the recurring theme and primary motivator for most of the protest can be summaries as follows. The social aspect, while perhaps valid, are incidental reasons used by press to narrate and justify the violence.

You are falling for the trap if you let others prevent you from addressing real issues just because they pervert them to justify false issues. An analogy would be Buddhism should not abandon the Manji symbol just because the Nazis used the similar Swastika and many people are ignorant of the difference.

manqiangrexue · Sep 16, 2019

solarz said:
Truly, you're not the only one. If you go through my post history on SDF, you can get a feeling on the evolution of my thoughts.

My first watershed moment was in 2008. The Lhasa riots prompted the Toronto Chinese community to hold a huge rally downtown. I participated in the rally, the square we were in was filled with Chinese flags. There were easily thousands of us, of all ages and from all walks of life. I saw major news outlets interviewing many people.

When I got home, I eagerly turned on the TV to see news coverage of the rally. The Chinese community really made their voices heard this time, I thought.

I still remember that CTV report clearly. They showed a clip of a young Chinese guy saying he was told not to talk to the media, and that he didn't know why. Then they jumped to an Asian looking woman who claimed all the demonstrators where students and that they were forced to show up by the Chinese consulate. She further claimed that the consulate held the students' passports and controlled their visas.

I also remember searching Google for news about the rally. Every article put the rally number in the "hundreds". You can see an example of this coverage here:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

This experience was the most eye-opening experience for me. Up until then, I believed the Western propaganda about "free media". Now, I did not immediately change my mind after this experience, I remember arguing on an email thread with fellow Chinese about how they're misunderstanding Western media. I thought I knew more than them since I grew up in Canada.

I did not change my mind immediately, but I kept thinking about this experience over the years, reconciling what I went through with what I read on the MSM, and slowly I understood the pervasiveness of Western propaganda.

This is an ongoing process, as I am continuously learning new ways the media is manipulating my perception. The current HK riots is another learning experience for me. When I was searching for news of the unrest, I automatically dismissed reports from PRC sources reporting on pro-China rallies in HK. I thought that the majority of HKers were anti-China! It is only thanks to @Gatekeeper that I was able to gain an accurate understanding of the situation!

In 2008, my coworker's friend (significantly older than me) had been interviewed by American media on his views of the Dollar Llama. He said something along the lines of,

"I think the Dalai Llama stands of peace and harmony in the West and he certainly does not seek to start any wars BUT his motives are much darker than what Americans realize. He is actually a separatist from a time in Tibet's history characterized by barbaric rituals such as coprophagy and forced brainwashing for blind religious worship and things like that have no place in modern China."

He got home to his wife screaming at him and hitting him for embarrassing China on the news and he was just at a loss for why. When she put the rerun on for him, he realized that they had cut out everything he said after "BUT" and now he was the face of national betrayal to all Chinese people at his university! It's actually kinda funny to think about as far as misfortune goes but I'm sure the humor had escaped him at the time.

solarz · Sep 16, 2019

manqiangrexue said:
In 2008, my coworker's friend (significantly older than me) had been interviewed by American media on his views of the Dollar Llama. He said something along the lines of,

"I think the Dalai Llama stands of peace and harmony in the West and he certainly does not seek to start any wars BUT his motives are much darker than what Americans realize. He is actually a separatist from a time in Tibet's history characterized by barbaric rituals such as coprophagy and forced brainwashing for blind religious worship and things like that have no place in modern China."

He got home to his wife screaming at him and hitting him for embarrassing China on the news and he was just at a loss for why. When she put the rerun on for him, he realized that they had cut out everything he said after "BUT" and now he was the face of national betrayal to all Chinese people at his university! It's actually kinda funny to think about as far as misfortune goes but I'm sure the humor had escaped him at the time.

Ouch!

This kind of crap is why the organizers of rallies tell people not to speak to the media. I didn't agree with it back in 2008, but now I know better.

getready · Sep 16, 2019

Train derailed in HK.

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Jura The idiot · Sep 17, 2019

Gatekeeper said:
View attachment 53863

history-sinners-qinhui-statue-corrupt-officials-such-as-qinhui-song-dynasty-yue-fei-temple-henan-china-photo-121766157.jpg

Hong-Kong Protests

Gatekeeper

Brigadier

solarz

Brigadier

plawolf

Lieutenant General

manqiangrexue

Brigadier

solarz

Brigadier

PanAsian

Major

manqiangrexue

Brigadier

solarz

Brigadier

getready

Senior Member

Jura The idiot

General