Hong-Kong Protests


solarz

Brigadier
I can read some, that’s why I could understand they are councillors (Sai Kung, not Saigon, maybe if it was Joshua could be).

Problem is the only Chinese literature I am exposed to on a regular basis are menus, lol. I learned Chinese (Cantonese) for many years actually. The problem is that to really be skilled, you have to force yourself to do something like read the news in Chinese. However, then since it is only my second language in a literacy standpoint, I need to look things up in the dictionary, and it becomes too much of a chore over reading English news. I’m fairly confident that my skill would be considerably improved if I moved to HK/China.

Funny story, one time going to dim sum with my cousin and some friends. My friend handed my cousin the menu, but she couldn’t order a thing. Problem was that she knew all the dishes’ names in Chinese, but couldn’t read them. The English names were unhelpful like “pork dumpling”. Could be 燒賣, 鍋貼, or some other 餃子. It was probably the most clear example of being stuck between worlds I’ve ever witnessed. 有飯吃, good enough right? lol

This is why I insist on having my child write one page of Chinese characters every day. The human brain is hard-wired to learn language most efficiently at an early age.

A lot of other Chinese parents do not pay enough attention to their children's Chinese education, and are worried instead about their English education. As someone who learned English as a child, those are simply the wrong priorities. English is a relatively simple language that a child can easily pick up naturally if they are in an English-speaking environment. Chinese, on the other hand, need some hard work to get to a functional level.

It's likely that those parents are influenced by their own experience learning English in China in their early teens, and the difficulty they had back then, and believe their children would have the same difficulties.
 

KYli

Senior Member
In the 80s and 90s, many overseas Chinese especially the elites would forbid their children to speak Chinese at home. They want their children to fit in the American society as much as possible. I know many of these overseas Chinese youngsters that don't speak Chinese and regret that they don't have the opportunity to learn it. Of course, the rise of China has made many overseas Chinese parents more receptive of learning Chinese language.
 

Crang

Junior Member
Registered Member
In the 80s and 90s, many overseas Chinese especially the elites would forbid their children to speak Chinese at home. They want their children to fit in the American society as much as possible. I know many of these overseas Chinese youngsters that don't speak Chinese and regret that they don't have the opportunity to learn it. Of course, the rise of China has made many overseas Chinese parents more receptive of learning Chinese language.
I wonder if they're really elite if they're just lemmings.
 

KYli

Senior Member
I wonder if they're really elite if they're just lemmings.

It was China weakest period. Those elites Peking University and Tsinghua University students were doing everything they can to leave China. Although, many of those who decided to stay or not elite enough to leave end up at the top of the food chain, those who left now face with glass ceiling and stuck in the middle management. But who would have known back then that China only took 30 years to become world second economy power.
 

Crang

Junior Member
Registered Member
It was China weakest period. Those elites Peking University and Tsinghua University students were doing everything they can to leave China. Although, many of those who decided to stay or not elite enough to leave end up at the top of the food chain, those who left now face with glass ceiling and stuck in the middle management. But who would have known back then that China only took 30 years to become world second economy power.
They still sound like they're too enamoured of power. Maybe they were traumatised by the Cultural Revolution. I guess some people try to overcompensate to fit in.
 
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Crang

Junior Member
Registered Member
It was China weakest period. Those elites Peking University and Tsinghua University students were doing everything they can to leave China. Although, many of those who decided to stay or not elite enough to leave end up at the top of the food chain, those who left now face with glass ceiling and stuck in the middle management. But who would have known back then that China only took 30 years to become world second economy power.
The funny thing is that these Chinese Americans, when faced with the rise of China, double down on their whiteness. They try to act more white than white people. They only allow English in the home, they forbid their children from associating with black people (seen people like that before).
 

solarz

Brigadier
It was China weakest period. Those elites Peking University and Tsinghua University students were doing everything they can to leave China. Although, many of those who decided to stay or not elite enough to leave end up at the top of the food chain, those who left now face with glass ceiling and stuck in the middle management. But who would have known back then that China only took 30 years to become world second economy power.

30 years ago was far from China's weakest period, and this attitude of 崇洋媚外 still exists today, albeit COVID-19 probably battered it down quite a bit.

You just have to look at all those Chinese who give themselves English names while working in China! To me, that is one of the most absurd things ever.

That said, I will say this. People make their choices in life based on their circumstances. Just as China is not some kind of Hell, it's not Eden either. My dad chose to leave because he simply could not stand the practice of 关系 and 开后门 in order to advance his career back in the 80's. My mom, on the other hand, would have been far better staying in China, just because she had better familial connections, which she completely lost after coming here.

Myself, as a software engineer, there's no way I would be able to tolerate the 996 culture permeating all the major tech companies in China. For my kids, however, I want to keep their options open, so I place a lot of importance on them learning to read and write Chinese.
 

plawolf

Brigadier
The funny thing is that these Chinese Americans, when faced with the rise of China, double down on their whiteness. They try to act more white than white people. They only allow English in the home, they forbid their children from associating with black people (seen people like that before).

They are just mirroring and amplifying the society they want to integrate into, cannot blame that BS on their Chinese heritage since they are actively trying to amputate that part of themselves and replace it with what they feel are core western values to enhance their banananess.
 

supersnoop

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is why I insist on having my child write one page of Chinese characters every day. The human brain is hard-wired to learn language most efficiently at an early age.

A lot of other Chinese parents do not pay enough attention to their children's Chinese education, and are worried instead about their English education. As someone who learned English as a child, those are simply the wrong priorities. English is a relatively simple language that a child can easily pick up naturally if they are in an English-speaking environment. Chinese, on the other hand, need some hard work to get to a functional level.

It's likely that those parents are influenced by their own experience learning English in China in their early teens, and the difficulty they had back then, and believe their children would have the same difficulties.

My parents definitely cared, which is why I have even a basic proficiency at all.

Ironically you talk about being influenced by parents' difficulty learning English. When I was learning Chinese, I dusted off their old English/Chinese dictionaries to look up words the other way around! Looking back, I guess the other reason why it was so difficult to do this is because you have to look in the Chinese dictionary at the time by # of strokes. No smartphones, no easy input of Chinese characters into computers, no real internet at the time even.

While I can't speak for the "elites", my experience here as far as friends/family/acquaintances are concerned, is not so much a desire to integrate, but just difficulty level. I hear this a lot. Chinese is just a difficult language that requires a lot of unavoidable memorization. Even if you it were alphabetized, it would not be helpful. Korean Hangul is basically the closest thing to alphabetizing Chinese, but as an example, 門 and 問 both are 문 in Korean, so basically the difference relies solely on context which in turn is memorization. It is extremely difficult to motivate a child to put in the work.

Even once as a teenager, I was at a friend’s house and I read a simple newspaper headline out loud at which my friend’s mother asked if I could read Chinese, and I said only a little. Even that little bit launched her into a 5 minute lecture to how it was shameful my friend couldn’t read anything. So certainly it is not always “not caring” or trying to be “white”.

Many Chinese-X (2nd gen, 土生), certainly do regret not being proficient at Chinese later on. Race can be more of an issue as an adult, and it is only later they realize they’ve lost a part of their identity. The ones who never learned are probably the ones who “double-down on whiteness”. I think the struggle to learn Chinese (even if you fail) in a non-Chinese society is really what gives an appreciation to the culture.

With respect to doubling down on whiteness. I think this brings the discussion back on topic. Pretty much that sums up why those councillors are willing to betray the country. They certainly don’t understand the white supremacist mentality that permeates western politics. Being in China, speaking Chinese, they don’t understand the basic premise that the part of the policy of western regime change is also to initiate a culture war. This has been true even in the genocide of Native Americans (Residential schools, etc.).
 

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