Hong-Kong Protests

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
I'm going to sound pretty out-of-line here but :

I think what Rubio&Co positions about U.S approach to HK is valid. Isn't it upto US to decide what to do and what not to do with regards to their approach towards a particular city, especially one that has special political and economic arrangements and privileges ?
In that sense, US can pass any number of bills and look into anything that they deem worth looking into.
Tomorrow, they can decide to pass a new bill on Tibet, Xinjiang(they have already passed such bills). They could pass a bill on Shanghai, Wuhan, Yunnan, Inner Mongolia whatever.
Tomorrow, The US can pass a bill on the pollution of Chinese rivers and decide to sanction the chinese companies polluting a chinese river!
As asinine as it sounds, it is upto US to do that. They can decide and if they have weighed their interests and costs, they very well ought to do it.

China can decide( duh, China don't need to pass bills...Lol) to look into school shootings, the treatment of minorities/ people of other race and the systematic enroachment and destruction of native american land of spiritual value IF it deems them worth looking into.China can decide on to pass a bill on religious freedom in the U.S. It is upto China to have a sound knowledge about its power, interests and costs to decide upon that.

U.S is betting on its hard and soft power and that is surely great. No one would care if Iceland passed a bill on HK. But US passing a bill has effects on the situation sue to U.S soft and hard power.

However, China must protest the HK bill and the actions of the senators on these grounds, rather than focus on "internal affairs" and "sovereignty" principles:

1. The bill will destroy HK economy/ stability of the economy and confidence. No business investor wants to invest in a city whose political and economic systems have become unpredictable. HK will see a capital outflow.
2. The bill will embolden the the radicals and would help keep the fire burning. The bill is a tacit support to the secessionists and terrorists of HK even if the bill proclaims the support to the cause of Freedoms and democracy.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Is Marco Rubio that dumb or did he have a brain fart? I mean it could be possible he actually thinks Hong Kong is a part of the US like during the Iraq War people thought Iraq was where Mexico is.

He's just that dumb, as is the rest of those who agreed with him.

He doesn't think HK is a part of the US, he thinks that the US passing a law about HK is its internal affair, which is the equivalent of me saying I have the right to swing my fist, and if your nose happens to be in the way, that's your problem.
 

solarz

Brigadier
I'm going to sound pretty out-of-line here but :

I think what Rubio&Co positions about U.S approach to HK is valid. Isn't it upto US to decide what to do and what not to do with regards to their approach towards a particular city, especially one that has special political and economic arrangements and privileges ?
In that sense, US can pass any number of bills and look into anything that they deem worth looking into.
Tomorrow, they can decide to pass a new bill on Tibet, later Xinjiang.( they have already passed such bills) They could pass a bill on Shanghai, Wuhan, Yunnan, Inner Mongolia whatever.
Tomorrow, The US can pass a bill on the pollution of Chinese rivers and decide to sanction the chinese companies polluting a chinese river!
As asinine as it sounds, it is upto US to do that. They can decide and if they have weighed their interests and costs, they very well ought to do it.

China can decide( duh, China don't need to pass bills...Lol) to look into school shootings, the treatment of minorities/ people of other race and the systematic enroachment and destruction of native american land of spiritual value IF it deems them worth looking into. It is upto China to have a sound knowledge about its power, interests and costs to decide upon that.

However, China must protest the HK bill and the actions of the senators on these grounds, rather than focus on "internal affairs" and "sovereignty" principles:
1. The bill will destroy HK economy/ stability of the economy and confidence. No business investor wants to invest in a city whose political and economic systems have become unpredictable. HK will see a capital outflow.
2. The bill will embolden the the radicals and would help keep the fire burning. The bill is a tacit support to the secessionists and terrorists of HK even if the bill proclaims the support to the cause of Freedoms and democracy.

Your right to swing a fist ends at where someone's nose begins.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Your right to swing a fist ends at where someone's nose begins.
I agree with him. The US and China are pretty much in a fight with open (nonviolent) hostilities. The US started this fight because of insecurities and fear that it is about to be relegated in the world order so it's going to come out swinging desperately and it's not going to be talked out of it because it knows that the longer it waits, the more the power dynamic shifts towards China. There's no point in China talking to it and telling it to be calm and stop flailing because the US will do anything in its power to put China at a disadvantage. Its purpose is to hurt China, so there is no reason for China to make these requests as if it were protesting to a friendly nation to reconsider for the common good. This is a fight; the only way forward is to counter their moves and make them pay. Only pain can stop them, but even then, desperation will drive them on. Americans can make all the laws enforceable within the limits of its powers and China can do the same; see who gets his way. Don't waste your time talking to a guy who wants your head on a trophy board and is scared of your existence; just fight with all you've got.

Of course, if China's talking is not meant for the US, but meant for the global community to show everyone that we are not the belligerent ones and we tried to use words before using (political) fists, that's no problem at all. I think that's China's trade war strategy too.

And by the way, Rubio and Cruz are two of America's politicians for whom I have the least respect. Both are Latino but were mentally beaten into a submissive state so that they overcompensate by aggressively identifying as American and bark the loudest for America even though America discriminates profusely against their people. Such weakness is indescribably disgusting to me.
 
Last edited:

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
I agree with him. The US and China are pretty much in a fight with open (nonviolent) hostilities. The US started this fight because of insecurities and fear that it is about to be relegated in the world order so it's going to come out swinging desperately and it's not going to be talked out of it because it knows that the longer it waits the more the power dynamic favors China. There's no point in China talking to it and telling it to be calm and stop flailing; the US will do anything in its power to put China at a disadvantage; its purpose is to hurt China, so there is no reason for China to be making these requests as if it were protesting to a friendly nation to reconsider for the common good. This is a fight; the only way forward is to counter their moves and make them pay. Americans can make all the laws enforceable within the limits of its powers and China can do the same; see who gets his way. Don't waste your time talking to a guy who wants your head on a trophy board and is scared of your existence; just fight with all you've got.

Of course, if China's talking is not meant for the US, but meant for the global community to show everyone that we are not the belligerent ones and we tried to use words before using (political) fists, that's no problem at all. I think that's China's trade war strategy too.
Non violent hostilities have always existed between U.S and China. Even before CCP came to power! Even if China is free and democratic, US will "pass bills" that may not be nice to china. As long as China's national interests don't overlap perfectly with that of U.S, As long as China has a very different racial, linguistic and cultural profile... U.S and China will disagree.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Non violent hostilities have always existed between U.S and China. Even before CCP came to power! Even if China is free and democratic, US will "pass bills" that may not be nice to china. As long as China's national interests don't overlap perfectly with that of U.S, As long as China has a very different racial, linguistic and cultural profile... U.S and China will disagree.
Correct, but those hostilities really blew up into the open in the last 2 years because 1. Donald Trump is extremely poor in tact and 2. the US is starting to realize that it might not be able to stay ahead of China and went into panic mode.

And yes, as long as China and the US are both nations powerful enough to vie for the world's strongest, there will always be hostilities between them no matter what ideologies they have. It is not a matter of ideology but of power dynamic and political Chess. The two strongest tigers on a mountain will always hate each other no matter and two rival superpowers will always find some reason to demonize each other (although China does it much less) so their people can get riled up for the rivalry.

And even if in the end, Trump vetos the Kong Kong bill and it ends up dying, I wouldn't see it as a friendly gesture or any kind of positive signal. It means they decided that the possibly benefits weren't worth the risks and backed off. They're comin' at China as best they can; everyone can be reassured of that. If they don't swing, it's either because their arm is hurt or they don't wanna miss and hit a brick wall again like they did in the trade war.
 
Last edited:

solarz

Brigadier
And even if in the end, Trump vetos the Kong Kong bill and it ends up dying, I wouldn't see it as a friendly gesture or any kind of positive signal. It means they decided that the possibly benefits weren't worth the risks and backed off. They're comin' at China as best they can; everyone can be reassured of that. If they don't swing, it's either because their arm is hurt or they don't wanna miss and hit a brick wall again like they did in the trade war.

Trump is not going to veto the bill unless he can get some concession out of China, which he won't, so he won't veto the bill.

I expect there will be no deal before the next US election.
 
Top