H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)

Amistrophy

New Member
Registered Member
If you're really cheap and desperate you can also Kessler syndrome entire orbits to deny any satellites the LEO completely for even cheaper than anti-sat sats or lasers.
Amazing shitpost this reminds me of:
Project West Ford II -23 Septillion Copper Needles-

Eitherway, everyone recognizes the advantages of ten-thousand or however many-part megaconstellations, as the US, EU, and PRC are all putting a massive emphasis on launching these.

For the PRC, there's at least two underway, for the near future. Still in their nascent stages, as China is still figuring out VTVL and reusable launch. (Guowang, G60-Qianfan)
 

as.karo

New Member
Registered Member
Using OTH radar systems to function as improvised GPSes, using US beacons, using flight log data in combination with compass information and spotted landmasses to approximate current location, or, if necessary, yes, using celestial navigation. These bombers are meant to penetrate deep behind the traditional front lines, deep into enemy airspace where the electronic environment would be complete havoc even without the navigational satellites being downed. It would quite frankly be gross negligence if there was no effort to create backup navigation systems in case traditional GPS/Beidou was somehow denied to the aircraft.
OK, so maybe bombers can navigate, but what about fighters and GPS-guided weapons?

I have no idea where you're getting that information from.
Don't tell me you've never heard of it :)

Air defense systems use radars operating on short or very short waves, because only they are accurate and suitable for guiding anti-aircraft missiles.
For this reason, stealth is optimized for such radio wave lengths. However, if long waves were used, stealth would lose its advantages. It is easy to detect an "invisible" aircraft, when the transmitter and receiver of such a radar are several hundred meters apart (and this is possible for radars operating on long waves. This is how British radar worked during World War II).

In addition, the Czechs have developed passive radars that can also detect stealth:
"Rule number one for defense contractors: Don't tick off the U.S. government. A small Czech tech firm called Era developed and last year started selling a $10 million radar that can detect stealth jets, those heretofore invisible aircraft. It lined up as possible buyers such countries as China, Pakistan and Vietnam.
This didn't please the U.S., which this fiscal year plans to spend $4.7 billion on 24 F-22 stealth striker jets and millions more to upgrade its two other stealth aircraft, the B-2 bomber and the F-117 Nighthawk.
So the U.S. bought one of the Czech radars, called Vera-E, to test its "effectiveness and technical aspects," according to Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage. Vera apparently works, or at least well enough that the U.S. State Department suggested the Czech government reconsider foreign sales of it. China had ordered six of the machines. A U.S. ally and NATOmember since 1999, the Czech Republic scuttled the sale. "We discussed the issue with them, but the decision was theirs," said State Department spokesman Richard Boucher
." :D

source: Forbes
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Amistrophy

New Member
Registered Member
OK, so maybe bombers can navigate, but what about fighters and GPS-guided weapons?


Don't tell me you've never heard of it :)

Air defense systems use radars operating on short or very short waves, because only they are accurate and suitable for guiding anti-aircraft missiles.
For this reason, stealth is optimized for such radio wave lengths. However, if long waves were used, stealth would lose its advantages. It is easy to detect an "invisible" aircraft, when the transmitter and receiver of such a radar are several hundred meters apart (and this is possible for radars operating on long waves. This is how British radar worked during World War II).

In addition, the Czechs have developed passive radars that can also detect stealth:
"Rule number one for defense contractors: Don't tick off the U.S. government. A small Czech tech firm called Era developed and last year started selling a $10 million radar that can detect stealth jets, those heretofore invisible aircraft. It lined up as possible buyers such countries as China, Pakistan and Vietnam.
This didn't please the U.S., which this fiscal year plans to spend $4.7 billion on 24 F-22 stealth striker jets and millions more to upgrade its two other stealth aircraft, the B-2 bomber and the F-117 Nighthawk.
So the U.S. bought one of the Czech radars, called Vera-E, to test its "effectiveness and technical aspects," according to Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage. Vera apparently works, or at least well enough that the U.S. State Department suggested the Czech government reconsider foreign sales of it. China had ordered six of the machines. A U.S. ally and NATOmember since 1999, the Czech Republic scuttled the sale. "We discussed the issue with them, but the decision was theirs," said State Department spokesman Richard Boucher
." :D

source: Forbes
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If you’ve done a single bit of cursory reading or research simply by going back through the many threads on this forum alone, you’d know that inertial navigation is widely prevalent in military applications, especially for aircraft and their ordnance. As a secondary system for use when GNSS is jammed, laser guidance is unavailable etc.

Celestial map navigation systems appeared on ICBMs in the early 60s and 70s, as a way to recalibrate their gyroscopes used for inertial navigation. I can’t see how the technology is anymore limited today.

I have to caution you this: VLO design can’t be reduced down to a series of meaningless tech buzzwords, and while there are advancements in detection and vice versa in turn, I really doubt the forbes article gave you a proper calibration on this subject.
 

as.karo

New Member
Registered Member
If you’ve done a single bit of cursory reading or research simply by going back through the many threads on this forum alone, you’d know that inertial navigation is widely prevalent in military applications, especially for aircraft and their ordnance. As a secondary system for use when GNSS is jammed, laser guidance is unavailable etc.

Celestial map navigation systems appeared on ICBMs in the early 60s and 70s, as a way to recalibrate their gyroscopes used for inertial navigation. I can’t see how the technology is anymore limited today.
Inertial navigation is not very accurate. In fact, it is not accurate at all. Just watch the Ukrainian-Russian war and how dramatically GMLRS lost accuracy, when the Russians started using GPS jammers.

I have to caution you this: VLO design can’t be reduced down to a series of meaningless tech buzzwords, and while there are advancements in detection and vice versa in turn, I really doubt the forbes article gave you a proper calibration on this subject.
Ok, that is your opinion. Mine is different. :)
 

tamsen_ikard

Senior Member
Registered Member
Inertial navigation is not very accurate. In fact, it is not accurate at all. Just watch the Ukrainian-Russian war and how dramatically GMLRS lost accuracy, when the Russians started using GPS jammers.


Ok, that is your opinion. Mine is different. :)
In this day of AI, Terrain matching and image recognition should provide very accurate direction on land. Inertial nav will be useful in the deep sea.
 

HardBall

Junior Member
Registered Member
If only H-20 was unveiled so this thread wouldn't devolve into off topic conversations like constellation navigation, blowing up satellites, and island hopping.

Exactly.

This thread has long stopped being about the bomber. There has not been any credible news on the H-20 for a very long time now. Either it is currently non-existant, or kept so well guarded that people here aren't likely to have any semblance of useful information. Instead of devolving this thread into random topical conversation that is actually in the wrong subforum altogether, maybe it's time to close this thread. And if there will be some solid info on the H-20 again (if ever), then it can be reopened.

I don't get why people just don't post their discussions in the right subforum, such as here: PLA strike strategies in westpac HIC , instead of wasting a lot of people's time here.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
I am fairly sure the project still exists in some form. XAC has been awfully quiet. Other than the MA700 they have made no new aircraft. Just the Y-20B re-engine.

If you assume XAC had design teams for JH-7, Y-20, H-6K, what are they doing now?

The Y-20 won't need a replacement any time soon. There is the supposed Y-30 turboprop but I think it is fair to assume XAC have at least two design teams. One for transport aircraft and another for bombers.

With the J-16 and J-36 the JH-7 and even the H-6K will become redundant. Some kind of strategic bomber is the remaining hole in the roster for the PLAAF.

So there should be some kind of H-20.
 
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sunnymaxi

Major
Registered Member
This thread has long stopped being about the bomber. There has not been any credible news on the H-20 for a very long time now. Either it is currently non-existant, or kept so well guarded that people here aren't likely to have any semblance of useful information. Instead of devolving this thread into random topical conversation that is actually in the wrong subforum altogether, maybe it's time to close this thread. And if there will be some solid info on the H-20 again (if ever), then it can be reopened.
information is available on this thread.

last year during two sessions of NPC. The deputy commander of the PLAAF and official representative in NPC has made it clear that. we have no technical bottlenecks to develop H-20 bomber and this program exist.

1000119307.jpg


as per the all sources project is likely to redesign in order to fulfil PLAAF requirement in 2030's and beyond.

The Y-20 won't need a replacement any time soon. There is the supposed Y-30 turboprop but I think it is fair to assume XAC have at least two design teams. One for transport aircraft and another for bombers.
Y-30 project undertaking by Shaanxi Aircraft Corporation.
 
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