H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)


gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
B-21 will be more expensive to maintain than B-52 or B-1 even with numerous improvements over B-2.
If that is true it just shows how the US cannot even make a cost effective design anymore. There is no good reason why an eight engine aircraft like the B-52 should have lower maintenance costs than a twin engine aircraft like the B-21. If this is attributable to stealth coatings, taped over access panels, and the like it only shows how stealth, at least how the US implements it, is a boondoggle and a massive waste of money.

I omitted Russian bombers because I don't see them as a reliable factor in any future scenario that PLAAF could consider. PAK-DA is still theoretical. Tu-160 is at B-1 level (no matter what Russian propaganda claims) and Tu-95MSM will be at B-52 level approximately. Those are not assets useful in scenarios other than defense of own territory starting from 2030 onward.

Tu-160:
Empty weight: 110,000 kg
Powerplant: 4 × NK-32 afterburning turbofan engines, 137.3 kN thrust each dry, 245 kN with afterburner
Maximum speed: Mach 2.05

B-1:
Empty weight: 87,090 kg
Powerplant: 4 × GE F101-GE-102 afterburning turbofan engines, 77.4 kN thrust each dry, 136.9 kN with afterburner
Maximum speed: Mach 1.25

Tu-160 has nearly twice the thrust and speed. Thrust and mass fraction directly relate to bomb load in such an aircraft.

As for the PAK-DA it has been funded, they are building two prototypes, and the engine is in the test stand. At this point it is about as theoretical as the H-20. The H-20 should come out earlier since it likely will use existing engine designs and the program was started earlier. H-20 will massively increase Chinese capabilities vs H-6K with regards to bomb load, range, penetration capabilities. It will be a quantum leap forward while B-21 is a downgrade in terms of capabilities from B-2. B-21 is basically a cost reduced version of the B-2. The main advantage is it is expected to be produced in higher numbers. As a B-1 replacement the B-21 will likely not have improved bomb load, will have lower maximum speed, and might have higher range and loiter time.
 

TK3600

Junior Member
Registered Member
If that is true it just shows how the US cannot even make a cost effective design anymore. There is no good reason why an eight engine aircraft like the B-52 should have lower maintenance costs than a twin engine aircraft like the B-21. If this is attributable to stealth coatings, taped over access panels, and the like it only shows how stealth, at least how the US implements it, is a boondoggle and a massive waste of money.



Tu-160:
Empty weight: 110,000 kg
Powerplant: 4 × NK-32 afterburning turbofan engines, 137.3 kN thrust each dry, 245 kN with afterburner
Maximum speed: Mach 2.05

B-1:
Empty weight: 87,090 kg
Powerplant: 4 × GE F101-GE-102 afterburning turbofan engines, 77.4 kN thrust each dry, 136.9 kN with afterburner
Maximum speed: Mach 1.25

Tu-160 has nearly twice the thrust and speed. Thrust and mass fraction directly relate to bomb load in such an aircraft.

As for the PAK-DA it has been funded, they are building two prototypes, and the engine is in the test stand. At this point it is about as theoretical as the H-20. The H-20 should come out earlier since it likely will use existing engine designs and the program was started earlier. H-20 will massively increase Chinese capabilities vs H-6K with regards to bomb load, range, penetration capabilities. It will be a quantum leap forward while B-21 is a downgrade in terms of capabilities from B-2. B-21 is basically a cost reduced version of the B-2. The main advantage is it is expected to be produced in higher numbers. As a B-1 replacement the B-21 will likely not have improved bomb load, will have lower maximum speed, and might have higher range and loiter time.
You talk as if today USA produce an identical copy of B-52 it wont be overpriced.
 

TK3600

Junior Member
Registered Member
Actually isn't that exactly what F-15X is? Rebuild of existing designs. It proves the issue of cost is not in stealth design but in the defense industry.
 

by78

Lieutenant General
A cropped screen capture, taken from a CNY greeting from Shenyang. Not sure if this is relevant, but this thread will have to do.

52641008429_7bf87587cd_o.jpg
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
cross posting something I put in science & tech thread. This is from someone on Weibo that's more tech than defense focused.
第二,H20首飞,进度赶得上2025首批入列。那差不多和003到时一个进度了,从此中国的天空更加严密。而003铁定开始海试,希望到时可以看到拆棚后的雄姿!

So he is saying here that H-20 will make its first flight this year (which I think most people would agree with) and that the initial batch might enter service in 2025 at around the same time as 003. I think 2025 initial service entry for 003 is reasonable.

But if we use J-20 as an example, 2011 made its initial flight in 2014 and initial batch joined FTTC in 2016. So if this is the case with H-20, then what will make first flight this year is more like 2011 and 35001 than 31001 or 2001. So, not just a demonstrator. I remember talking to patch a while back about something and he mentioned about possible small number of H-20 in service by 2025. At the time, I thought it was quite aggressive. I still think it is, but this is at least something to keep in mind.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
cross posting something I put in science & tech thread. This is from someone on Weibo that's more tech than defense focused.
第二,H20首飞,进度赶得上2025首批入列。那差不多和003到时一个进度了,从此中国的天空更加严密。而003铁定开始海试,希望到时可以看到拆棚后的雄姿!

So he is saying here that H-20 will make its first flight this year (which I think most people would agree with) and that the initial batch might enter service in 2025 at around the same time as 003. I think 2025 initial service entry for 003 is reasonable.

But if we use J-20 as an example, 2011 made its initial flight in 2014 and initial batch joined FTTC in 2016. So if this is the case with H-20, then what will make first flight this year is more like 2011 and 35001 than 31001 or 2001. So, not just a demonstrator. I remember talking to patch a while back about something and he mentioned about possible small number of H-20 in service by 2025. At the time, I thought it was quite aggressive. I still think it is, but this is at least something to keep in mind.


This comparison to 2011 (J-20) and 350001 (J-35) is interesting especially for the J-35, since it will be interesting how many additional prototypes will appear when and in what intervals.


As for the H-20 I in fact won't hold my breath both with maiden flight this year - even if indeed likely - and service entry 2025 - IMO unlikely!
 

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