Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.

So with this virus thing throwing China in chaos at the moment, maybe Trump might have a chance talking UK into banning Huawei after all. It is really about forcing the nations of the world to pick a side, east vs west, china vs america etc

anyone know what happened to tidalwave? he got banned or he just busy? i tried PM him but his profile not even visible
perhaps @tidalwave is too busy with his top class consultancy
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
I just discovered this thread, and only now have finished reading it. Some comments....

@tidalwave: Don't worry about ASML's lead in EUV. Their tin-droplet technique may not be the only way to do 7 nm or beyond. Somebody (coolio99?) has already mentioned ultraviolet super resolution techniques. Free electron methods have also been mentioned. Synchrotrons for producing X rays may also work. The point is that there could be more than one way to skin this cat.

Huawei has also been discussed in this thread. I thought I would mention that Huawei is bigger than Boeing: the Chinese company's 2018 revenues were $105 billion, while Boeing's 2017 revenues (before the MAX disaster) were only $93.4 billion. Lockheed-Martin's revenues are like $50 billion a year. Huawei is on track to be bigger than Boeing and Lockheed-Martin combined. Perhaps this is one reason Trump wants to kill the Chinese company.

Another reason could be Huawei's ownership structure: the company is owned by its employees. The founder, Ren Zengfei, has only 2% of the stock. There is no billionaire dictating to the peons, and that is probably offensive to Trump, who loves to give orders. Huawei is an extremely successful, one hundred billion dollar communist company -- which is bigger than Boeing.
 

Rettam Stacf

New Member
Registered Member
I just discovered this thread, and only now have finished reading it. Some comments....
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@tidalwave: Another reason could be Huawei's ownership structure: the company is owned by its employees. The founder, Ren Zengfei, has only 2% of the stock. There is no billionaire dictating to the peons, and that is probably offensive to Trump, who loves to give orders. Huawei is an extremely successful, one hundred billion dollar communist company -- which is bigger than Boeing.
Why is it a "communist company" and not just another company ?
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
Why is it a "communist company" and not just another company ?
As Jono noted, Huawei can be called "communist" because the company is owned by its employees.


Don't mind it, it's stupid.

By that definition look at the list of "communist" companies outside of China.

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Why do you think a $100 billion company is stupid?

Even in the West there are companies with similar organization, but as far as I know none of them are bigger than Boeing, or are anywhere near that size. Huawei is. Huawei is proof that an employee-owned company can work extremely well at enormous size, and all the billionaires in the U.S. -- like The Donald -- hate and fear it.
 

localizer

Junior Member
Registered Member
As Jono noted, Huawei can be called "communist" because the company is owned by its employees.




Why do you think a $100 billion company is stupid?

Even in the West there are companies with similar organization, but as far as I know none of them are bigger than Boeing, or are anywhere near that size. Huawei is. Huawei is proof that an employee-owned company can work extremely well at enormous size, and all the billionaires in the U.S. -- like The Donald -- hate and fear it.
I meant automatically calling a worker's cooperative -> communist is stupid.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
I meant automatically calling a worker's cooperative -> communist is stupid.
You can always play definition games: maybe Huawei doesn't satisfy your personal definition of communism. But Huawei's ownership structure is certainly closer to the communist ideal than Boeing is. My point is that whatever Huawei is doing is not purely capitalist: the employees are working for each other, not for some billionaire dictator boss. Whatever Huawei is doing, it works marvelously well -- better than whatever Boeing is doing.

And that is what scares the U.S. billionaires like Trump: if Huawei continues to excel, people will start asking whether billionaires are necessary. This is probably a major reason why Huawei has been singled out for such dirty treatment (like the kidnapping of a company official).
 
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