F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

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I think the title is bit Click bait.

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At the heart of this is a Tweet by Steven Tumble who is a bit confused.
First F22 and B2 have Chaff and Flare dispensers.

I am pretty sure on this as F22 uses the AN/ALE52 and have seen video of both putting on a Flare fireworks display.

Next we know where the Flare dispenser is on F35 and AF-3 was certified with the MJU-61A/B infrared countermeasure flare years ago well inverted.
The Launcher on F35 has never been identified in designation. It’s launching point is on the Ventral side next to the towed Decoy dispenser. I suspect that F22 uses a modified version of the ALE52.
ALE52 uses RR180 or RR188, I am guessing that this ARM 210 is a replacement for the F22 and F35. Of course this is conjecture.
what is it you're saying, does the F-35 have flares or not now?
 
F35 Has has Flares for years @Jura.
The Question is Chaff. Metallic materials used to try and decoy a radar the old fashioned way.
That’s that ARM-210 is. F35 as yet doesn’t have ARM 210 it might have current generation RR170 which is what seems to be in Raptor.
meant to ask about "chaffs" not "flares" sorry

so the F-35 doesn't have any chaffs at all now?
 

Brumby

Major
meant to ask about "chaffs" not "flares" sorry

so the F-35 doesn't have any chaffs at all now?

Not yet according to the article although I am not surprised by it. I believe "chaffs" are not effective against modern radar seekers and would not be a priority for the F-35. The one planned for the F-35 according to the AWST is an "advanced chaff" scheduled for delivery in 2020. The ARM-210 (chaff) is basically a backup for the ALE-70 FOTD..
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Maybe.
That’s the best I can give you. Maybe.
F35 is supposed to have the ARM210 Advanced Radar counter Measures. However the USAF is still doing Testing and is slated to enter service in 2020.
ARM 210 countermeasures, should be close to the current chaff used in the USAF in size and configuration for launching but because of the launchers location and other differences F35’s launcher may not be compatible or it could be with existing systems.
As pointed to in the article a 2014 catalog by a Chaff maker claimed to have F22 and F35 compatable training Chaff dispenser. Which is why I think they may have a ALE 52 based launcher.
It may be able to in the interim use existing Chaff but to a lesser effect.
That said F22 literature says that it has a “Tailored” Chaff countermeasure. Which leads me to Maybe.

F35 appears to have 5 countermeasures to attack.
First the VLO shaping and materials.
Then the Radar’s ability to attack electronically.
Then Flares to try and spoof IR guided weapons.

These three it has in common with F22.

Then comes The Towed decoy ALE 70 however the more I read of it the more it seems to be for spoofing Ground to Air Missiles, rather than Air to Air.

This is where ARM210 comes in.
If a bandit was able to get on a F35’s six o’clock and fire a Radar guided missile the Chaff is popped and the pilot starts maneuvering.
This isn’t world war 2 clearly so the Chaff in this case has been updated as best possible the goal not be blind the missile but to attempt and buy time well the fighter and missile shift as to make it impossible for the missile to reacquire the Lightning by it being in a position where it can’t turn hard enough to intercept or the radar angle is poor and the radar can’t get a good track. Hopefully then the Lightning can break the situation around and go Smokey on that Bandit...
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Mar 1, 2019
sort of update from inside of
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:
"In other news, the head of Air Force acquisition, Will Roper, told me that the attempt to rebuild F-35’s maintenance and mission planning system known as ALIS as a cluster of apps is “going well, actually.”

However, the nascent effort is still an experiment at Nellis AFB run by software team known as Mad Hatter. The next step is, Roper said, for the Navy to decide if Mad Hatter should continue to work on what may become a substantial rebuild of ALIS, which has become perhaps the most troubled part of the F-35 program. That decision will be up to the Navy’s James Geurts, assistant secretary for research, development and acquisition, who now has acquisition authority for the F-35."

plus the picture of quote unquote tablet:
ALIS-LockMart.jpg

That is not a tablet, but a Panasonic Toughbook PC ,just for reference.

Maybe there is a misunderstanding by the reporter, and the "software that automate the user input over several database and using automated decision tree" interpreted as " tablet with apps".
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
F35 appears to have 5 countermeasures to attack.
First the VLO shaping and materials.
Then the Radar’s ability to attack electronically.
Then Flares to try and spoof IR guided weapons.

These three it has in common with F22.

Then comes The Towed decoy ALE 70 however the more I read of it the more it seems to be for spoofing Ground to Air Missiles, rather than Air to Air.

This is where ARM210 comes in.
If a bandit was able to get on a F35’s six o’clock and fire a Radar guided missile the Chaff is popped and the pilot starts maneuvering.
This isn’t world war 2 clearly so the Chaff in this case has been updated as best possible the goal not be blind the missile but to attempt and buy time well the fighter and missile shift as to make it impossible for the missile to reacquire the Lightning by it being in a position where it can’t turn hard enough to intercept or the radar angle is poor and the radar can’t get a good track. Hopefully then the Lightning can break the situation around and go Smokey on that Bandit...

Radar can't be used, the emission of it can guide any missile made in the past half century onto the aircraft.

Chaf has limited use as well, it can fool only the non-Doppler seekers. , and gives away the position of the airplane at the moment of launch.

Against radar guided weapons the towed decoy usable only, that has the same speed like the jet.

But it can fight against only one radar at the time, and it can be hard to fight against multi-band radar systems ( if not impossible ) .
 
now
Documents Reveal F-35 Chaff System Details
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Newly released U.S. Air Force documents reveal the identity and fielding schedule for a critical component of the electronic warfare system for the
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.

The environmental impact statement released as part of the Air National Guard “beddown” process that establishes several new F-35A bases also identifies the unique radar chaff system tailored for the F-35.

“The ARM-210 chaff proposed for use by the F-35A is currently unavailable and undergoing testing,” the documents say. “It is expected to be available for use in 2020.”

That timeline loosely aligns with a previous disclosure by the F-35 Joint Program Office that the aircraft will receive an “advanced chaff” upgrade during the Block 4 follow-on modernization program.

Radar chaff is a standard defensive aid on so-called fourth-generation fighters. The environmental impact statement includes a detailed description of how the technology works.

“A bundle of chaff consists of approximately 5 to 5.6 million fibers that are cut to reflect radar signals, and when dispensed from aircraft, form an electronic ‘cloud’ that breaks the radar signal and temporarily hides the maneuvering aircraft from radar detection,” the document says.

The ARM-210 designation breaks from the traditional nomenclature for chaff. Besides the B-52 and some
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variants, the rest of the U.S. military aircraft fleet equipped with chaff carry cartridges with the designations RR-170, RR-180 and RR-188. For ARM-210, the “A” appears to stand for “air-launched,” and the “R” likely denotes “chaff.” But the meaning of the third letter “M” isn’t clear. It usually stands for “missile,” but it isn’t clear how that term may be applied to a chaff cartridge.

The F-35’s ASQ-239 electronic warfare suite also includes the ALE-70 towed decoy. When an F-35 pilot anticipates being targeted by radar-guided missiles, the ALE-70 can be deployed on a tether behind the aircraft. The decoy emits a radio frequency signal stronger than the F-35 to fool the radar seeker on the incoming missile.

As a back up to the decoy or for use when the ALE-70 isn’t deployed, the F-35 pilot also can dispense chaff to fool radar--guided missiles.

The F-35 also carries MJU-61 magnesium flares to counter incoming missiles guided by an infrared seeker.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Radar can't be used, the emission of it can guide any missile made in the past half century onto the aircraft.
Only against missile systems that are that sophisticated. Additionally the radar on F22 and F35 can shift frequency and mode but operates in the X band. Other weapons and systems may be used to try and pick off radars as they go. Leaving the X band.
Chaf has limited use as well, it can fool only the non-Doppler seekers. , and gives away the position of the airplane at the moment of launch.
which is why it’s a last resort. And most missiles are still non Doppler types as it’s a disposable radar. The aim of Chaff is to buy time.
Against radar guided weapons the towed decoy usable only, that has the same speed like the jet.
it’s being towed by the jet so it has the same speed.
But it can fight against only one radar at the time, and it can be hard to fight against multi-band radar systems ( if not impossible ) .
F35 don’t operate as single ships you would have a flight of four operating in pairs.

Furthermore other assets may also be used in the SEAD role like the MALD J or drones to fill the air with additional targets and assets. The data links of these beaming the radar source to the F35 who attacks them kinetically with stand off weapons.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Only against missile systems that are that sophisticated. Additionally the radar on F22 and F35 can shift frequency and mode but operates in the X band. Other weapons and systems may be used to try and pick off radars as they go. Leaving the X band.
which is why it’s a last resort. And most missiles are still non Doppler types as it’s a disposable radar. The aim of Chaff is to buy time.
it’s being towed by the jet so it has the same speed.

F35 don’t operate as single ships you would have a flight of four operating in pairs.

Furthermore other assets may also be used in the SEAD role like the MALD J or drones to fill the air with additional targets and assets. The data links of these beaming the radar source to the F35 who attacks them kinetically with stand off weapons.
Radars using coded signals, so missile has to be able to interpret the radar coded illumination .
These are the most primitive semi-active missile.


Means to sort out the Doppler is a trivial things, it come out from the system as a stable error signal.

The small drones and company hasn't got big enough directional antenna, means they have limited capability to sort out the "real" radar signal from all other RF signals.

Size is king, the F35 very small compared to the ground based radars, and the drones / baits are even smaller than the F35/22.
 
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