F-22 Raptor Thread

[b787]

I read a rather peculiar piece few years back. During plain F-22 1-on-1, that is one raptor against another, neither have any AWACS or ground support. During the battle.......well...........nothing actually happened. The 2 jets couldn't locate each other, and completely missed each other

so what you are saying air combat is over, F-22 then can not locate any other stealth fighter.

Just for the sake of curiosity, if any other stealth fighter goes against each other, how are they going to fight? come on you know that is not true, in real life Stealth aircraft, F-22 included will be detected, that is part of the technology cycle

 

[b787]

Ace, this is the F-22 thread, once you emit, you R DEAD! now go on back to your anti stealth thread,

do not get angry, i will leave the thread as you wish

 

[Brumby]

so what you are saying air combat is over, F-22 then can not locate any other stealth fighter.

Just for the sake of curiosity, if any other stealth fighter goes against each other, how are they going to fight? come on you know that is not true, in real life Stealth aircraft, F-22 included will be detected, that is part of the technology cycle

Stealth and radar science is not some voodoo magic. The science is well established. Detection range is simply a function of a number of variables as defined by the radar equation :



Aircraft having a VLO profile as the F-22 doesn't mean it cannot be detected. It just mean that it will have a greater non detection range advantage against say an aircraft that is non VLO. Additionally, a VLO aircraft also has an inherent advantage when using jammers


Finally, modern air to air is not a one dimensional competition but multi spectrum in nature. If a VLO were to go supercruise it would light up its IR footprint and be detected via its IR signature. Also IR detect6ability is also subject to weather and attitude. There are var5ious considerations to be had.

In theory, modern AESA with its LPI features are supposedly hard to detect because of frequency agility and the use of spread spectrum but it is rumored that some of the receivers out there are so sensitive that they can detect a single pulse emission and geo locate using TDOA techniques. .

 

[Brumby]

I read a rather peculiar piece few years back. During plain F-22 1-on-1, that is one raptor against another, neither have any AWACS or ground support. During the battle.......well...........nothing actually happened. The 2 jets couldn't locate each other, and completely missed each other

Such an outcome is actually not strange and is well within expectation. When the ROE's is strictly non emission and no AWACs support then it is totally dependent on visual. The F-22 doesn't have IRST unlike the F-35 which has EOTS that gives it a 360 degree sensor capability. Sensor fusion is simply merging the spectrum of RF, IR and Optical to give it enhanced SA. I would speculate that under the same ROE's against the F-35, the F-22 will loose out.

 

[Air Force Brat]

do not get angry, i will leave the thread as you wish

That is most certainly NOT what I wish! I just wish that you would show a little respect, and possibly even deference to your elders here on SDF.

 

[Jura The idiot]

a moment ago, while checking Syria Civil War news, I noticed on Twitter (comes from

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F-22 with historic Maloney's Pony insignia has been the first Raptor to go into Syria

​

 

[Brumby]

It is claimed that the radar emission of the APG-77 is undetectable. If true, that would explain why the F-22 is slow in adopting IRST. Just wondering whether you guy/gals have come across this claim before. My source : Page 181 Military Avionics Systems by Ian Moir and Allan Seabridge


It picked my interest because I also came across a recent report which may indirectly corroborate this claim. There is an Australian parlimentary enquiry back in 2012 when the Air Marshall in his testimony was explaining how the F-15D got jumped on numerous occasions by F-22's during red flag. In my mind for this to happen, it would mean that the F-22 was emitting but the F-15 wasn't picking up the emission. Relevant transcripts produced below :

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

the Technology is Low probability of intercept Radar,It uses frequency hopping over a wide band to constantly modulate the radar beam preventing the passive receiver form locking in on a threat search. because the Radar warning receiver is seeking a consistent ping of energy indicating a search or track by jumping all over the spectrum the Receiver cannot distinguish the radar search from regular background radiation.

 

[Brumby]

the Technology is Low probability of intercept Radar,It uses frequency hopping over a wide band to constantly modulate the radar beam preventing the passive receiver form locking in on a threat search. because the Radar warning receiver is seeking a consistent ping of energy indicating a search or track by jumping all over the spectrum the Receiver cannot distinguish the radar search from regular background radiation.

I agree but primarily I believe is due to the use of spread spectrum in which in every single pulse emission, the radiation is spread across frequencies and the diminished radiated power is able to operate below white noise. The frequency hopping would help to prevent deceptive jamming but potentially detectable. In spread spectrum because the emission power is distributed across frequencies it operates below threshold detection.

 

[FORBIN]

It is claimed that the radar emission of the APG-77 is undetectable

Undetectable i don' t think but few, very few possible
Specification underestimated even by experts also especially for comparison with others fighters at the expense of F-22.