European Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter sandyj
- Start date
Re: European armed forces
Turkish defence ministry published on december 26th a short note (albeit in turkish) where they declare SEDEF shipyards as the winners for the LPD tender the Turkish navy had..
That means that the selected design for the landing ship will be one similar to the Juan Carlos I and Canberra classes LHD. If it wasn't possible to reach an agreement, DESAN marine (who compete with a chinese Yuzhao class 071 LPD design) would be the second optin in this tender.
Jeff, you must update you Big Amphibs webpage!!!!
Link here to Press Comunications
and a direct link in turkish
Turkish defence ministry published on december 26th a short note (albeit in turkish) where they declare SEDEF shipyards as the winners for the LPD tender the Turkish navy had..
That means that the selected design for the landing ship will be one similar to the Juan Carlos I and Canberra classes LHD. If it wasn't possible to reach an agreement, DESAN marine (who compete with a chinese Yuzhao class 071 LPD design) would be the second optin in this tender.
Jeff, you must update you Big Amphibs webpage!!!!
Link here to Press Comunications
and a direct link in turkish
thunderchief
Senior Member
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: European armed forces
but the South Osetia war placed Georgia Squarely on Vlad's persinal S-list.
This presents both a opening and a closing. Georgia can't keep using there Russian Birds. They don't have the spare parts of the makers to clone said parts. hence the closing. now the opening with the recent opening of the S70i production line in poland and the evidence that PZL MIELEC is allowed to export, Georgia may have a easy line to Blackhawks that would solve some of there issues. they might also try for more Huey's and possibly Cobra's or Apaches. the question is cost and politics.
Georgia like most of the former Soviet republics was founded with a number of aircraft and military equipment left over form the Warsaw pact. the majority of that equipment is now very old and only a few nations make spare and replacement parts.
but the South Osetia war placed Georgia Squarely on Vlad's persinal S-list.
This presents both a opening and a closing. Georgia can't keep using there Russian Birds. They don't have the spare parts of the makers to clone said parts. hence the closing. now the opening with the recent opening of the S70i production line in poland and the evidence that PZL MIELEC is allowed to export, Georgia may have a easy line to Blackhawks that would solve some of there issues. they might also try for more Huey's and possibly Cobra's or Apaches. the question is cost and politics.
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thunderchief
Senior Member
Re: European armed forces
Realistically , Georgia is in a precarious position with its anti-Russian and pro-Western stance , especially after 2008 war . Their main income of foreign currency are workers in Russia and Russian government uses this as a powerful leverage against Georgia . Obviously , Russia will not allow large rearmament of Georgian military . In fact , after the war , Georgian air force and navy have been disbanded and incorporated into army . In current situation , Georgia tries to procure Western weapons&equipment , but because of high cost it is relatively symbolic . They are also trying to produce some of their own weapons (mostly light armored vehicles) .
Realistically , Georgia is in a precarious position with its anti-Russian and pro-Western stance , especially after 2008 war . Their main income of foreign currency are workers in Russia and Russian government uses this as a powerful leverage against Georgia . Obviously , Russia will not allow large rearmament of Georgian military . In fact , after the war , Georgian air force and navy have been disbanded and incorporated into army . In current situation , Georgia tries to procure Western weapons&equipment , but because of high cost it is relatively symbolic . They are also trying to produce some of their own weapons (mostly light armored vehicles) .
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: European armed forces
I would hardly call it symbolic and as to Russia preventing rearmament. Little late. After the war Georgia went on a military spending bonanza. For a while There military spending hit over 7% of GDP. Buying used Ukrainian armor, Israeli Uavs, Turkish vehicles and fast patrol boats, American UH1, a mix of indigenous, American and Israeli small arms. They built up bigger then pre war. Although still not a full NATO state they have everything but the stickers.
I would hardly call it symbolic and as to Russia preventing rearmament. Little late. After the war Georgia went on a military spending bonanza. For a while There military spending hit over 7% of GDP. Buying used Ukrainian armor, Israeli Uavs, Turkish vehicles and fast patrol boats, American UH1, a mix of indigenous, American and Israeli small arms. They built up bigger then pre war. Although still not a full NATO state they have everything but the stickers.
thunderchief
Senior Member
Re: European armed forces
Georgia bought mostly used Ukrainian armor (they have a hard time maintaining it ) and that is about it . Other military spending is just pi**ing in the wind and waste of money .
In 2008. Georgia at least had decent air defense . Most of that was destroyed/abandoned in the war , and there was no attempt to acquire new equipment . Considering that , and considering the fact that VVS had acquired new planes and equipment , you could expect even greater Russian air superiority in hypothetical next conflict .
Trying to emulate NATO model is completely wrong for small country like Georgia . NATO relies on air superiority and obviously Georgia cannot have that . Without air superiority everything else fails and cannot be used effectively like we already saw in 2008.
Georgia bought mostly used Ukrainian armor (they have a hard time maintaining it ) and that is about it . Other military spending is just pi**ing in the wind and waste of money .
In 2008. Georgia at least had decent air defense . Most of that was destroyed/abandoned in the war , and there was no attempt to acquire new equipment . Considering that , and considering the fact that VVS had acquired new planes and equipment , you could expect even greater Russian air superiority in hypothetical next conflict .
Trying to emulate NATO model is completely wrong for small country like Georgia . NATO relies on air superiority and obviously Georgia cannot have that . Without air superiority everything else fails and cannot be used effectively like we already saw in 2008.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: European armed forces
look In a full conflict it's a given Georgia would suffer, They lack the raw material to actually put up a full battle of attrition the Russian Army has them 10 to 1 easily. it would be like Cuba trying to hold of a full American Invasion. they might buy like five minutes but if the US says go, Game over.
but my point is its not so easy to toss out what they have been doing or say that Russia has effectively or could prevent rearmament. For Georga proper not the disputed territory's the Georgain military is pretty good might not win if putin decides to force reunification of the Once Russian Empire but could give one heck of a repair bill to moscow.
look In a full conflict it's a given Georgia would suffer, They lack the raw material to actually put up a full battle of attrition the Russian Army has them 10 to 1 easily. it would be like Cuba trying to hold of a full American Invasion. they might buy like five minutes but if the US says go, Game over.
but my point is its not so easy to toss out what they have been doing or say that Russia has effectively or could prevent rearmament. For Georga proper not the disputed territory's the Georgain military is pretty good might not win if putin decides to force reunification of the Once Russian Empire but could give one heck of a repair bill to moscow.
thunderchief
Senior Member
Re: European armed forces
Georgia needs an army that could deter or slow-down Russia until international diplomacy starts working (in 2008. they needed few days for that) . For that they would need :
1. Solid air defense that would tie down VVS and possibly shoot down some Russian aircraft . In 2008. they were close to achieving that goal but then lost most of their equipment in panicked retreat . After 2008. Russia managed to block Georgian attempts to purchase new SAM systems .
2. Plenty of anti-tank weapons (guided and unguided) to slow down Russian armored spearhead . Again , they had some of those (of Soviet origin) in 2008. but were unable to replace them in large scale afterwards .
3. Whole idea of professional army is completely ludicrous for such a small country with hostile relations with Russia . You cannot expect to stop Russian army with few thousand "professionals" while rest of the county watches idly . Either you going to have conscription or you going to be overwhelmed quickly in no time , like it already happened .
Georgia needs an army that could deter or slow-down Russia until international diplomacy starts working (in 2008. they needed few days for that) . For that they would need :
1. Solid air defense that would tie down VVS and possibly shoot down some Russian aircraft . In 2008. they were close to achieving that goal but then lost most of their equipment in panicked retreat . After 2008. Russia managed to block Georgian attempts to purchase new SAM systems .
2. Plenty of anti-tank weapons (guided and unguided) to slow down Russian armored spearhead . Again , they had some of those (of Soviet origin) in 2008. but were unable to replace them in large scale afterwards .
3. Whole idea of professional army is completely ludicrous for such a small country with hostile relations with Russia . You cannot expect to stop Russian army with few thousand "professionals" while rest of the county watches idly . Either you going to have conscription or you going to be overwhelmed quickly in no time , like it already happened .